I can see a few ways that this could be potentially remedied.

1) Restrict the number of PhDs given out so there isnt a glut.
2) "Vocationalise" as much of the PhD as possible so that there are transferable skills that are recognised (e.g. certificates for stats, bio lab skills, writing, research etc)
3) Limit the number of PhD students a supervisor can have which could mean a) supervisors can concentrate on their students properly, b) that postdocs have more chance to be hired to work on projects, rather than discard them and exploit "fresh meat" to the grinder.
4) Raise awareness that leaving academia isnt "failure" and highlight routes to industry.

Bear in mind that there may be things that you are not aware of such as political infighting or long standing grudges. In my experience its not uncommon to see PhD students being fought over like a bone between two angry dogs. Especially when it comes to the petty "are you in my camp or theirs" style issues.

Maybe we DO need a political inquiry into our working practices? Also more research into mental health in postgrads? (Thinking of potential grant application here).

I have also started questioning the prestige issues. When people ask me "Dr Badhaircut huh? What is your area of practice?", their faces usually fall when I say "Uh, I am a PhD, not a medical doctor".

This is usually followed by "So you arent a real doctor?".

Grrr.

Although I can see it being linked to the economy, certain things dont make sense. Not so long ago (1980s), PhD/Postdocs were doing okay, and things were not THAT different. In fact, with the proliferation of mass higher education surely we would have more demand to teach, work in uni's etc?

Maybe if undergraduate tuition fees were uncapped it could help pay for those higher up the chain? Not ideal I know, but it seems to work better in the US, where this happens.

The lack of control is an issue, but if the university administration sets a "contract" (hours, expectations, working conditions) maybe this could treat the worse excesses of some supervisors?

Not sure if I agree with the "best thing in the world" or "ignorant masses", but I accept that they may perpetuate the cycle. Which means we have to work harder to educate those incoming.

Yep, I have got the post doc blues really bad, and am in a similar situation to you, trying to find work and chart my course after doing my PhD.

You are not the only one. My advice is to try to write up something for publication (anything, even your lit review) and start sending it out. The sooner the better.

In the meantime I am looking for temp jobs to keep me afloat (been doing this all afternoon), but so far have been deemed overqualified. I might start lying and just using my bachelors degree (anyone else done this before).

"The best years of your life".

Funnily enough, a phrase often associated with cold showers and buggery at public school, as well mind numbing compulsory military conscription in certain European countries. Its funny how these widely touted "best days" are anything but.

When I was writing up, I was inside and alone so often I would get cabin fever. I found that joining university societies was helpful (mainly for undergrads, but some accepted postgrads).

During the daytime, I also found that being sociable and bringing in biscuits for people, or asking for "help" even when I didn't necessarily need it was a good way of making conversation, just to keep my sanity (as long as they werent too busy).

Its easy to forget how lonely it can be in research. Quite often you arent dealing with other people directly (especially in write up), which is why its important to work towards keeping in contact with others.

Cont'd

As regards to finance. Although I do see food, rent (and even beer)as important, I am aware that there are other things like pension contributions that I am behind most people. My uni did not pay contributions to the state pension, and I am not sure if this is the norm. Also I can't even think about saving for a deposit for a house or if anything goes wrong, I have nothing for an emergency. The few savings I had were used up supporting me through my 4th PhD year/write up.

I have tried to be financially savvy, but I still have a large Student Loans debt hanging over me from my undergrad days, which I have deferred but still accrues interest, which scares me.

I regard this financial situation as "hand to mouth", and that people can work 60 hr weeks and be like this needs to be challenged. Perhaps others see it differently.

@laurzf1: I apologise if I have misunderstood you and don't mean to cast aspersions on you directly. I was commenting on a prevailing attitude I notice, not you as a person.

You may not need help now (or ever), and I hope this stays throughout your academic career. However, If things did change in the way I suggest, I supsect would you be happier and better off.

@thecoastman: I missed the prior debate. My loss. Again, I reiterate, that I was talking from my own experience, and am exploring this issue (alongside several others) to seek some answers. Thanks for giving me your experiences and thoughts, and am glad that there is some diversity and am reminded that I should try to get to that kind of place.

"I can sort myself out thanks."

I suspect this is the sort of attitude that has lead to the situation we currently have. This callous, unempathic "Im-alright-Jack" style behaviour means that the rest of us suffer.

Just because you are fine doesnt mean that everyone else is. If I was the only phD/post doc to have this experience, then I would concede your point. But unfortunately, I am not the only one.

FYI, £12k a year (for only 3 years when PhDs often go on for more) is NOT enough to live in the capital or major British cities (esp. if you have a family). Rent alone is about half of that.Then food, travel, and the small matter of living.

Why fight?

Because it IS an injustice.
All of you on this board, and everyone reading for a PhD is worth more. We work hard, we do a job that is socially worthwhile (i.e. uni teaching and research)that has huge personal and professional demands. But most of us are not treated like this.


The things I would fight for have been outlined before. First of all I would like academia in general to acknowledge We do have a problem, and sticking our head in the sand is not the way to solve it. Then I would advocate discussions about a good work-life balance, routing out unfair employment terms, some supply and demand management of PhD students/ lecturer places. Is that unreasonable? Or worth fighting for?

Oh, and I AM thinking of the future. My future and your future (if you want to be an academic).

I respect that you travel on your own path, and think its great you are happy with your situation. I dont disparage that.

However, it has to be acknowledged that rent, food and all the other messy necessities of life are there, and we as a group should not be living a deprived, fearful, transient lifestyle that makes us vulnerable to the whims of a supervisor.

Its not about the money or being mercenary. I am not asking of £100,000 pound salaries or city bonuses. I am just advocating that PhD students (allegedly societies brightest and best) SHOULD be able sustain themselves, without living on or below the poverty line. That a post doc should be able to buy a house, or enjoy SOME level of job security (more than our short temporary contracts). This is not fantasy land. This used to be the academic life until the 1980s.

If enough people wake up this can change for the better. For all of us.

Cont'd

I think that geting low when you are in the middle of a PhD (or just finished as in my case) is common, but for it to affect your life in this way is simply not on (and makes me even angrier at the systen that brought you to this but thats another issue).

One word of advice, while you are in this state (and it is a temporary state its nothing inherent with you) dont make any long lasting decisions. Get some help and make those choices when you are in a better place.

I do relate to it having seen several undergrad and post grad friends experience it. All of them were able to make it through their low points, and things did get better. Some left, some stayed, but all of them are happier than they were when they were in the "thick of it".

I don't think you are "crazy" but I think you need to get the possibility that you may be suffering from depression checked out.
I am aware that disturbed appetite and disturbed sleeping may also accompany this.

This is not that rare and you should not feel ashamed, or guilty about this in any way. You certainly are not weak or "being a baby" for bringing this up. Anyone that says this to you is not worth listening to.

I would recommend you make an appointment with your GP and try to get referred to a counsellor (or psychologist/ therapist if its really severe), if you want to avoid drugs. My girlfriend (who does this sort of work) is often able to help people in your situation without using medication. Unfortunately as she cant tell me much because of confidentiality, I am not sure of the details.

Q: "What do my gf/ best friend think?"

Ironically, it was my gf who noticed I was despondent when my funding ran out. I felt what I was doing was pointless, etc), and she was able to make me realise that I HAD achieved something in doing a PhD, that I wasn't worthless and was worthy of some respect. Before that I felt guilty and blamed myself for "should have written up by end of year 3 etc". Only afterwards I realise how hostile the system I was working within.

I am not jealous of my gf or best friend. I see myself doing much the same work. I just want to be regarded in an equal way to my contemporaries, and get the same benefits and conditions. Don't you?

Q: "I do not appreciate you constantly trying to undermine MY decision to do MY phD."

I am not doing this intentionally. I think highly of those that research and expand any academic field. My intention is that if we get enough people to ASSERT themselves life would be better for everyone.