I can see what you mean as I had similar ideas about academia, doing a PhD and what academics would be like.  I think when we are on the outside looking in we do seem to have an idealised view of what it would be like to be surrounded by like minded intellectuals so that we can debate openly about our work and gain inspiration. Maybe that's what the Victorians and previous thinkers did in the age of scientific curiosity and enlightenment!  I think that is what draws a lot of people to academia (i.e. the challenge of doing your own research with like minded people in a supportive environment!)  Unfortunately in today's academic environment it's alot tougher as the pressures seem to have increased - there's a constant pressure to publish (you get judged how good you are by the number of publications you have) so you can move forward and get funding and establish yourself as a researcher!

Academics are humans so once you see that they have all the usual traits (some good and some not so good!)  When the academics are off their pedestals it's such a disappointment when you realise that some of them are really petty, protective of their turf as academia is very competitive, backstabbing, rude, have shout matching matches etc... you've seen the real academia!   Alot of staying in academia is about politics which is unfortunate and unbelievable!!!!  Those who get furthest often have a good game plan - good research and being able to work the system and play the game!  You don't get anywhere by just being good unfortunately! I was prepared for all the hard work necessary to do a PhD I didn't realise how much politics was involved!  (Bang goes the ivory towers image out the window!)

I think as money is so tight in most of academia unless you can commericalise it the competition is very intense so people will fight to keep their share of the pie!  There is a lot of gossiping about as well especially as everybody knows each other as it's usually a small field.  In that sense networking is good as it keeps you in the loop to know what everybody else is upto!

Status is very important in the hierarchical structure of academia so the higher up you go the more entrenched you become in your position which is a shame as that doesn't encourage open and honest debate which moves your subject forward!  They don't like to be told they are wrong especially Professors who have made their reputation on it!  Though this is a generalisation as you get some open-minded academics who are keen to foster new ideas and develop new talent. 

As for academics particularly professors behaving like adolescents some of the stuff I first heard I was thinking "but you are intellectuals at the top of your field surely you can't think that????" but it's such a disillusion when these supposed esteemed colleagues have such immature views! Education clearly hasn't done much for them!  I had this chat with some other students and they were of the same opinion!  Some of the professors should know better too!  Remember some academics have poor social skills so say the most inappropriate things!

Once you are aware of all those drawbacks and pitfalls I think you've made the transition from being a student to an academic or an academic in training!  Saying all that above I'd still prefer to be in academia than anywhere else.  The system has its flaws which I don't know if they can be fixed as it'd take a lot of effort and change especially as academics don't like change especially by young PhDers!  Where else do you actually get to do what you want pretty much most of the time, choose your research topics and talk about it all day?

A word about quality - due to the immense pressure to publish these days to be seen as a "successful" academic some people maybe tempted to play the game and publish lower quality papers or split their research into so many fragments to get as many publicati

The rest of the sentence got cut off ... here it is ....

though that is what it takes especially if you are doing a lab based project which never goes according to plan!

Try talking to people who understand your situation even other postgrads though everyone seems to be tied up with their own problems with their projects so collective moaning is sometimes good and you don't feel so alone! It's not so easy talking to non academics as they won't understand what you are going through and may frsutrate you even further! This forum is a good place to get support too!

Above all have confidence in yourself even if you don't feel confident or like you have the strength to get through! You can do it (think positive thoughts) and you have the mental strength to do it (willpower and determination). You've come this far so you can definitely do it and then show your supervisor that you can do without his help. Your supervisor doesn't sound like he's very communicative which makes things difficulty but just send him work anyway and see if he replies! You never know when you might catch him on an off day when he decides to be helpful! My own supervisor gave me the title and that was about it apart from some random ideas and rare meetings but I survived and they are now going about papers which I find quite funny considering the amount of input they've had!

Look after yourself, eat (mince)(sprout)(turkey) and sleep well and get out and about! Things don't seem so bad after a good night's sleep as small things which wouldn't usually be a problem tend be worse if you're tired or stressed! A good skill to learn is supervisor management - have you called his bluff? As in stand your ground with him - some people are all hot air so if you actually stand your ground and tell him that you are working (so that he doesn't need to feel the need to control your working hours but he just do that anyway) it might work? That depends on the personality of your supervisor which might be scary as they like to throw their weight/status around and make you feel very small but if you stand your ground and show that you are not going to put with their nonsense it might work. Though I'd be careful how this is done as it needs to be carefully so you not make the situation worse! He doesn't want to feel managed but if you can sort of get along with him and show him that it's going fine he might be less of a control freak but he might be that anyway (could just be his personality!) Just remember that it's his problem, not yours - you just need to work with it!

Anyway hope this has helped and something will get sorted.

Good luck (up);-)8-):p

Hi Karika,

Hang in there!  You'll get there and you'll be able to say you survived!

That sounds familiar unfortunately and there are an awful lot of awful supervisors out there!  As you enjoy your project and research just keep going regardless of your supervisor as it'll show them in the end who is the stronger one!!!!  Follow your dreams! It'll give you the satisfaction of doing it without him and the you'll gain the upper hand when he comes running to you about publications when you finish!  Funny how they didn't show any interest/remember that you exist but when you finish they are suddenly keen on publications!!!!

It's an awful situation to be in but you are not alone as there are lots of useless supervisors around so unfortunately you got one and there isn't anything you can do about it especially as he the is the leader of the project.  I think they just enjoy that sense of power!  The department often turns a blind eye to this (they let him get away with it as he is bringing in the research grants/prestige so despite the fact that he can't supervise or teach he gets away with it!!!) This is a very frustrating situation to be in and the odds are stacked against the student and will increase your sense of loneliness, helplessness, frustration, stress and will probably make you an emotional wreck!  :-s  They do say doing a PhD is character building and you'll get past it and move on and be stronger for it having survived the process!!!

Ideas that may help:

1)  Can you look for other people who can help - have you a 2nd supervisor or another academic(s) in the dept or external if you know someone else who is willing to help. Often people are willing to help as they know what this person is like - academia is very small!!!!  Though I wouldn't go randomly asking external academics to help unless they are already involved in the project as that may create further problems by seen to going behind your supervisor's back.  It depends on the politics of the dept/project as these people are often petty and hold grudges (they are usually quite insecure people despite being successful in their field but have no people skills so hard to work with!)

2)  Have you a postgrad tutor/welfare officer or somebody who has that role that you can talk to about your concerns? I would suggest that you don't make personal as that puts that person in an awkward position but say that you are not getting the supervision that you need and need some support to sort out the issue.  If you don't have a second supervisor maybe you can request one?  

3)  Do you know a friend in a similar position as talking to them can help as they'll understand what you are going than people with decent normal supervisors.  That way you will find that you are not alone and see how ridiculous your supervisors are being. It doesn't even matter if they are in a different country as it'll be the same!  Has your supervisor other students - talk to them but be very as they will either agree with you which is great or be in denial which is a more delicate situation which can be frustrating!  This depends on the politics of your group/dept.  As you may have notice alot of this is to do with politics which is very annoying when you just want to get on with the research but unfortunately there is alot of that around in academia and people are very protective of their patch/interests so be wary of that! But saying all that it can be a good environment - it just depends on the altitude of the dept/those you work him/your supervisor etc... as it can be very rewarding as few people get to do what they like and research their chosen subject! 

4)  As other people have suggested you need to take a step back from it all sometimes and take and break and doing something else not related to your PhD so you can relax and come back refreshed.  It's not healthy to spend every minute doing it even though t

Go for it - who knows what might happen in the future unless you've a crystal ball which would be useful! Good luck!

Good luck from me too

Yeah I totally agree it's a pain! I find the problem is that even for a post-doc these days sometimes in the desirable qualities bit they want you to have done one already which is impossible if you're looking for your 1st one! There has been very few few postdocs in my field too which is a big problem! I keep getting told that it's not a good time to be finishing anything and looking for a job though one supervisor said to hang in there which is probably the nicest thing they have ever said to me! They also mentioned that they finished in similar economic conditions! I don't have any publications which makes it even harder though I am working on this at the moment.

Good luck to all job hunting too! It's a hard slog! (up)

Hang in there - I got similar feedback when I was looking at PhDs. I was told I didn't have enough experience and that it was very competitive etc... which is very disheartening! I thought the same as you - surely by doing a PhD you can get the experience. Can you do anything to increase your experience? Maybe a part time job in the field you are interested in or volunteering in that area always looks good. You'll get something but it may take sometime - it's just not a good time to be looking, well that that's true for jobs but not sure it applies for PhDs as there does seem to be quite alot of those around. Some look quite interesting too! Good luck (up)

You can do it! Knock 'em dead! (up)(up)

Hi Damned,

Unfortunately it all sounds too familiar and I would agree with the others.

Communication with your supervisor is useless - he doesn't seem to get it.  You've called his bluff and he makes temporary changes but reverts back to old self after a while!

The lies are there - most academics are forgetful but some are just awful especially if they make empty promises they have no intention of keeping or keep changing the goal posts!!! Be very wary of them!!  Do not trust them and get help from elsewhere. Other academics are usually more willing to help if they can see what an awful supervisor he is.  Don't be afraid to take them up on the offer or if there is another person who can help in dept or outside the dept go for it and take their advice and use it as a sounding board.

Hypocrisy and favoritism is rife in some academics and very sickening!!!! The favourite has to be "Do as I say and not as I do!"  Then there is the pet project which if you're not doing you've had it and you are not worth bothering about as your research doesn't matter/is inferior/insignificant/it takes precious resources away from the pet project!!! Then there is the favouritism of students who get away with doing very little and/or shoddy work who then stick up for the supervisor which shows they are either in denial or refuse to believe other have troubles. Perhaps this is a way to kid themselves as previously suggested.  Either way it's very frustrating and drives you crazy!!!

Then there is the dept stance on it: i.e. they don't care as you are a disposable lowly PhD student who should be so grateful for doing one. They only employ the supervisor for their research and not for anything else - who cares that they cannot/will not supervise their students?!!! That's just an unfortunate burden for them!  How inconsiderate of students to want supervision! Basically it gets brushed under the carpet and people make up stupid excuses like "they get away with it due to the prestige of their position or due to their personality!"  That seems to count for a lot and there is nothing you can do about it unless complain formally in writing. You may get to change supervisors but only if you have a very good reason generally!  But this may help or not depending on the dept/supervisor so think about this carefully! Some may hold grudges and depends on how influential they are!

This is easier said than done but try not to let him get to you and affect your work particularly the progress. If you can't talk to him about your work try to draft in others who can help and read/give you opinions on your work.  Make use of other PhD students who may be able to help! (up)

Above all just think once your PhD is over you can get rid of him and the balance will tip the other way as you'll hold the key as I'm assuming that he'll want to publish papers with you suddenly despite showing no interest before when you wanted help!  Once you get your 1st job you won't ever need to bother him for a reference again!

Good luck with it and hope you find a way to deal with him.  There's a new skill for you - how to manage your supervisor - that's the key to a "good" relationship! 8-)

No I totally agree that is not on! I can't believe your flatmate thinks that is ok! You're definitely not over-reacting. I think it's a horrible thought to have somebody potentially go through your private things! As to your bedding etc... that is a terrible thing to come home to like somebody violating your space! Your flatmate could at least have had the decency to clean up afterwards.

Be very organised, hope that nothing goes wrong with your data collection, analysis, write up and get a model supervisor who is organised, efficient, supportive, helpful and interested in your work (i.e. does what they're supposed to do!) Good luck on finding the perfect combination ... I'm still looking!!!

Don't do science is another good way of finishing on time as I know very few students that finish on time as experiments are unpredictable and analysis even more so especially if statistics are involved!

People in the Humanities/Social sciences seem to finish alot quicker as they do not need to rely on such data collection or analyses but may have issues with getting subjects for interviews/questionnaires.

I'd definitely get another supervisor ... things could've been so different!!!! And don't be too over ambitious as that delays things alot if you try to cover too much ground it'll inevitably slow things down when you try to piece everything together as it's very time consuming to integrate lots of different types of data together and make sense of it all! Alot of doing a PhD is about luck - if you have a smooth project you're on a roll and off to a head start but if you have a new an untested project/idea which is what it's supposed about you'll run into difficulties which take time to fix so that slows things down but that's the nature of research!!! What you should do is plan for the unexpected and allow extra time for disasters so if they do occur you have time to sort them out!

Good luck - you need loads of that! :p ;-)

That depends on the nature of your research!  It doesn't quite work like that with lab based experiments - these are time consuming especially when they don't go to plan and you have to redo them! It's very time consuming process which says more about your standard of research as good science is often laborious with careful attention needed as repeatability is a key goal! 

;-)

That's cool KB - I'd be chuffed if my thesis got turned into a children's book! I've had weird random dreams involving data, supervisor, thesis (one was that it was too long and the other was that I had a cool title which was much better than my actual title!), viva etc... generally when I'm thinking about stuff alot or worried about it!

The coolest one has to be that I dreamt I was at a meeting which turned out to be somewhere like a castle but not quite as it was quite flat and open but perched on the edge of a high castle-like wall by the sea which was used as a Bond film set. I was discussing my poster with the organiser there! 8-)

I have only applied for money to go to conferences which I think works on the same principle where you apply to different societies that you are a member of for funding by filling in an application form with what you propose to do with the money - e.g. study trip abroad and work out the cost of everything. Most places will not give you all that you ask for so you generally have to show that you have applied or will apply elsewhere as well. Including what the outcome of the trip abroad is a good way to finish the application as they like to see that their money is well spent so producing a paper where you will acknowledge the funding body is a definite bonus!

I have found the amount of time it takes depends on who you apply to. If it's a departmental fund it's usually fairly quick but if it's a uni or an external funding body/society they make take several months for a decision. Some funding bodies/societies allow you to submit a claim in after you've been to an event within a certain time limit (e.g. 3 months).

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Hi that does sound pretty harsh!  I just want to ask when he says that you're his "employee" does that mean that you're his RA or something like that and you're doing your PhD as part of that job or are you registered solely as a PhD student?  If you are registered just as a PhD student he can't say you can't get a job to support yourself or do training.  At my uni we had to do the equivalent of 30 days transferable skills training during the 3 years in order to be able to get our PhD which had to be signed off as part of our professional development.  What you did was pretty much up to you as long as you could assign it to the skills in a skills matrix they used.  Examples could include going to seminars, talks, workshops, conferences, training sessions with supervisor where you learn some technique/program, teaching, taking part in open days etc...

Even if you are his RA or equivalent I would have thought you need to fulfil these requirements which are recommended for PhD students so we are more than our research and have these soft skills to make us supposedly more employable.  It's what they refer to as Robert's training after he was commissioned to write a report on it and suggested the training.  The best thing is to check your students' handbook which should set out all the rules and regulations you need to fulfil in order to get your degree.  Your supervisor is probably not aware of them.

Even if you're paid as part of his research project funding he shouldn't say you can't get a job if the funding runs out as how are you supposed to survive?  He doesn't own you and shouldn't threaten not to give you money - it's highly unethical!  I'm not sure where you stand on this but I would get a second opinion.  Have you got a department postgrad tutor/welfare officer you can talk to clarify the situation?  He sounds like a certain breed of academic that believes their own PR and thinks they are above it all!  This would bring you back to the working hours question - I don't think it applies to PhD students as we are not employees but if you are a RA or similar you should have certain rights as an official employee.  But it's quite usual to work evenings and weekends as I know a lot of people do especially those with lab based projects which are so time consuming and things generally tend to go wrong!  My supervisor also told me he expected me to work weekends as he didn't think I was getting data fast enough so they can be very demanding!

Most departments encourage teaching although that is down to individual departments.  I have heard the argument used by your department where they say first year is just for your research.  Although the version I heard applied to the whole time you were there as they believed that teaching was just for staff and the students were "lucky" not to be burdened with teaching duties so they could concentrate on their research (something most academics treasure!)  What they failed to realise is how out of touch this view is and how uncompetitive this would make the students there compared to others who were allowed to teach.  So try to get teaching if you can - it sounds like your supervisor is just being unreasonable!  Maybe if you draw up a time plan to show how you could fit all this in it would show him that you have thought about it and can manage your time well to fit everything in!  They seem to love time plans!

Good luck - I hope it all works out!
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