smoobles that's so funny!!!!! My PhD is terribly clingy, a bit co-dependent at the moment, perhaps we could do with a bit of marraige guidance.
:p

Sorry Melsie, I understand what you're saying a bit better now - I think you mean that it's because you're separating god from nature, as some detached entity, and that you feel (or probably, you think!!) that intellect is more trustworthy than instinct or none tangible experience. Is that it? oh, and that god is none existent until proven so by intellectual means. This does make me think of electricity though - there was a very long time when there was no way of proving its existence, but it does exist.

So, I can see why scientists might get annoyed about the possibility of god, but again, I don't agree, I think nature and god are the same thing, and I am part of it, and all three of us are in tune, headed in the same direction - hence my reliable instincts and those of dogs, cats, door mice, jelly fish etc. I also see science, including darwin (in my book - a strong voice of god - and I'd bet he used his instincts a lot), as part of that picture. I know a lot of people feel this way about god and it has nothing to do with religion - so maybe people are getting confused and reacting to religion and not god. I've never tried to make anyone think/feel like me so it can't that making them angry.

I've never read Dawkin, but to me god and religion are very different things, and I don't experience god in some restricted ideological way, many people don't. I hope he looked at this kind of belief.

Smilodon and Melsie, thanks for your responses. I think though, you got the wrong end of the stick to a large degree about what I was asking. I'm NOT asking why people get angry about religion - organised or otherwise - I do absolutey understand that, I come from a long line of catholics - most of them lapsed (sorry to any catholics out there, I'm sure things have changed since the 1950s).

Melsie, thanks for answering my question to some degree - but I don't understand why you feel the existence of god would be an insult to science. Could you explain that in more detail?

I do, very much trust my feelings, I have come to learn over the years that my instincts are my best guide in life, and I'm absolutely sure I got them from nature/god.

Hey Walminskipeas - maybe you can answer something for me? It always amazes me when atheists become angry and or passionate about people believing in god - why does it bring out so much passion? I mean if I didn't believe in something I just wouldn't bother about it and get on with my life.

Oh, and I can see why religion can p people off - because of the wars faught in its name (although I don't agree because wars are fought in the name of many things - the two worst in history, the 1st and 2nd WW had nothing to with religion). So I'm not asking why religion makes people angry, just the possibility of the existence of god - two seperate things. If it's working for someone, why try to rain on their parade, why not just get on with your life? It's something which has perplexed me for a long time. I've had some angry reactions from atheists, much more so than from religious people whose views I don't share.

It sounds to me like people being stuck in the mud. I hope this doesn't sound too negative, but from what I know of your field you have a very difficult task ahead of you. You can PM me about it if you like.

sorry bhc, but what's 'normal'?

Oh sorry! I mean, you'll be looking as cool as this icon after six weeks' time. 8-)

Hey Slack Jack, You WILL get through this and you WILL complete.

Although I'm no where near your stage, I have dealt with work induced panic and anxiety. Generally, I find, you just have to let it pass and keep going, find your own centre emotionally and just KNOW you will do it, and that life is looking after you and making the right things happen. Panic is another word for fear, so if you can take the edge of that and just TRUST I find that goes a long way.

But I'm sure you are doing fine - Oh! and I also find letting it out like you just did on here takes the edge of the fear and pressure. Plate smashing works well too - if you have some you use sometimes but don't really like - then smashing them can be immensley satisfying and great for letting go of pressure. Just don't get pissed until after you've handed in!!!!

GOOD LUCK AND YOU WIIIIIIIILLLL DO IT and you'll be looking as cool as this icon in a few weeks time! 8-)

To me god is something I feel, it's not an intellectual experience. I know about it because I can feel it, I can sense it and everything, good and bad is part of it. I haven't read Dwarkins but I suspect he rationalises god out of existence. I think it's folly to think the human intellect is the ultimate measure of what can and can't be - I see my intellect as a muscle, like a bicep, which I enjoy excercising and using alot, but it does not define who I am and how I see life.

Remo I'm not a scientist, but Idon't think that makes my contribution any less valid. Also, I think the assumption that PhD students, or acadmics, are more intelligent than other people and would have a better handle on this topic is a bit skewed.

Yeah, and people could just go on and repeat vote as many times as they feel like. What about Oprah! she's got to be a leading light in anyone's book and she believes in god. The blurb in the preamble is weighted too, it's loaded for people to say they don't believe in god, or else look dim and loose a connection with glam slebs such as Jolie. I mean, do I really care if Jolie belives in god or not? Is that relevant to something as important as this? can't be serious research, surely.

I defo believe in God, and I feeltouched by that every day, but not in the way you describe. I have no religion and I don't believe god punishes and rewards, I'm more of a God's microwave kind of a person.

Slap her with two wet fish!!! sorry coastman, but your concept was so damned good... maybe the second year feels she has something to live up to with you, stealing your framework is a mighty a compliment.

Hey BHC, I'm getting de ja vous, we've discussed this before. But here goes anyhow. Yes, I think it may well be human nature, but so are alot of things that aren't appropriate in certain professional settings.

Comforting and chatting with your peers is a whole different ball game to a supervisor /off loading/trying to hack handedly motivate (or whatever their reasons are) by, as I see it, gossiping to a student about other students.

A supervisor's relationship with a student is one of authority and responsibility so certain boundaries are appropriate. If they need to off load in this way they should invent their own forum!!! or find aomeone at work they can grouch to.

Bewildered, yeah, there has been quite alot of misunderstaning.

I did not mention assessment of students' work with fellow academics - ie not with students. Of course, that is absolutely necessary, as are the written reports etc you mention. And preparation for references. Nowhere would I dream of raising an objection to that so I'm not sure where you got that idea from. Also, yes talking to students about the research of others in the context that it would point them in the direction of useful reading matter etc is more than ok and vey useful. I absolutely raise no objection to that.

And you know, if you have successful conference papers, if you get your research published in respected journals, this will more than equip you to assess how well you are doing in your field. Much of the time a PhD's main competitors are people from across the globe so why knowing your (or in some cases, some academic with an office down the hall from) your supervisor thinks you are better or worse than another student in your department is not very useful and I feel has alot more to do with bad habits on the part of supervisors than anything that will actually help students.

What I object to is conversations instigated by supervisors in which 'this student is better than that student' or 'you are better than that student' or as I encountered 'at least you didn't stumble through in total confusion like the lad before you I realliy don't know what to do with him'. All that told me was that getting a new sup was becoming a more urgent task.