Overview of Mackem_Beefy
Recent Posts
Employment prospects for a PhD
Hello,
PhD unemployment has become a sort of universal condition. Finding a lectureship post, even for young PhDs in developing countries or wherever certain disciplines in social sciences and humanities are under-represented, is highly unlikely at an early stage of academic career. I hold a doctorate from Cambridge, nevertheless I wasn't able to find anything else but a temporary teaching post, which has expired long ago. The situation in subjects as medicine and science is somewhat different, yet there have always been funds available for these disciplines. I haven't heard of any people who managed to use their doctorates in the social sciences for jobs in the private sector - other than tuition (if this can be called a proper job). In fact, PhDs have to cope with a curious problem - being rejected as overqualified! I know of several cases where candidates had to erase their PhD from their cvs for this reason. I find this situation intolerable and outrageous, and perhaps it is the Universities' responsibility to do something about that. If I were the vice-chancellor or Head of School, I would be terribly concerned to see my students unemployed - and perhaps destitute. Many of us have paid university fees with our own or our parents' bank savings, and would definitely expect to hear a message of hope instead of public confessions of university failure.
I am a science PhD and even with a couple of post-docs under my belt, I had to conceal my PhD to ensure I found employment after the post-docs had ran their course (other circumstances others will be tired of hearing did come into play). I appreciate the humanities and social sciences will have their problems, however, even with some funding on the science side these problems crop up there.
In the long run, I have not been able to make my PhD work for me and it represents an interesting period of my past and no more. I don't regret doing it as I've said elsewhere as I felt it's something I needed to do, that said. Another lad I knew at first degree level made contact with me after years. He also did a PhD and finally drifted out of academia himself. He's now retrained as a commercial airline pilot.
Even with science graduates, there are problems establishing a long term career path in your chosen field. The short term funding and contracts don't help within academia and heading back into industry is difficult as you're seen as over qualified.
Ian (Mackem_Beefy)
Unemployed
Sorry to gatecrash your thread Delta, I hope you dont mind. I was just wondering; my 3 years of funding is due to finish in January by which time I am hoping to have finished my lab work and have written the majority of my first draft. I am intending to start looking for a job straight away as I have no savings to survive on. Therefore I was planning on claiming JSA from January as I have a loan that I am paying off. I am living with my boyfriend at the moment in a flat we share, and he is happy for at least a few months to pay the rent and bills while I finish and get a job, but we think at the most we could manage for 3-6 months on his one income and (hopefully) my JSA. However, from some of the threads I have read it seems that my boyfriend's income will prevent me from claiming JSA, can someone confirm that this is correct? If so, I'm guessing my only option will be to move back in with my parents, and hopefully claim JSA untill I find a job? Can anyone confirm that this is correct?
Thanks guys
I'm afraid you're correct as you'll be cohabiting. You would be okay on your own or living with your parents. The rules for claiming Job Seeker's Allowance in the UK are clear on that.
Sorry!!!
Ian (Mackem_Beefy)
Unemployed
Hi Mac,
I know, I read you post and found it very helpful (up). I just don't know if the same applies if someone only wants to maintain their N.I. contributions
To maintain your NI, you need to sign on and claim benefit. To my knowledge, you can't sign on only to maintian NI contributions. All or nothing.
Ian (Mackem_Beefy)
Article Download Help.
Thanks again Ady.
As regards the first one, can anyone else help?
Ian (Mackem_Beefy)
Article Download Help.
Could anyone download the following for me?
This first one will help in my current job.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/polb.1991.090290809/abstract
The other two are to forward 'official' versions on to my former supervisor ('another' last bit of paperwork).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301679X11002234
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301679X11000521
Thanks in advance,
Ian (Mackem_Beefy)
Unemployed
======= Date Modified 13 Oct 2011 13:09:50 =======
Hi Skig,
I'm not entirely sure but I think you literally need to sign on every two weeks, even if it's only to keep your contributions up to date but you would be best to check this.
Delta,
See my earlier post on this thread. It is literally every two weeks, though this increases to weekly for six weeks after 15 weeks.
Ian (Mackem_Beefy)
Unemployed
======= Date Modified 12 Oct 2011 12:29:45 =======
I've had two significant spells of 5 months and 10 months on the dole. The second spell was a few years ago after my second post-doc. The shorter spell was way back after my first degree.
This is roughly what I was to expect (though I never got to stage 5):
1) 2 job applications a week regardless of your qualifications, from newspapers, booths in the job centre or the job centre plus website;
2) Sign on once a fortnight, during which you're expected in the form of a diary to show what jobs you've applied for - it is useful to add to diary entries whether you have had interviews and how far you got;
3) At the 15 week mark, you'll be expected to sign on weekly for 6 weeks;
4) At the 6 month mark, there will be a 6 week period during which the dole may ring you at home during 'reasonable' (i.e. their) working hours - you may be offered a couple of positions to apply for and your are expected to apply or at least prove you've contacted the company about the position;
5) After 1 year, you will be placed on 'Action for Jobs', essentially a 3 month placement to gain you works experience for dole plus £10 a week to cover travel costs;
6) The whole sequence begins again.
You will be called in for interview every three months and you will be expected to take any application letters with you for the previous three months to show you have actually applied for the jobs. The staff reserve the right to contact companies to show you have actually sent any applications.
I also got £100 when I signed off (clothing / transport allowance to get me going again), though this might be cut with the current auserity measures. You might find if you've not been a tax payer for a while that you don't pay income tax until you have been paid so much in wages (can't remember the threshold).
I applied for 5 to 9 jobs a week for 10 months.
The above is reset to the beginning at any stage you have to sign yourself off the dole for sickness (and yes, this can be abused - don't even think it!!!).
I note you were hesitating over submitting your thesis in a previous post. If your supervisors are happy, get it submitted as it's one less distraction. Do not find yourself in the situation where you struggle to meet the dole's terms and conditions because your thesis is in the way.
The whole process for me was literally soul destroying. They do not differentiate on the basis of qualifications and definitely do not know how to handle graduates.
Best of luck, Delta, hopefully it won't be too long for you.
Ian (Mackem_Beefy)
To those who are in science field...
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and perspectives with me! i didn't expect this.
Hi mumbler - Thanks for such a thoughtful reply. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. It's interesting how all your family members are PhDs. That might be a big motivating factor in your case. Good luck with the rest of your training!
Hi Verucasalt - You were more interested in other subjects than sciences at school (like I was), but seem to be unhappy with your current life... Thanks for sharing it though! Btw, sorry to hear about what you've witnessed. That must have been an added stress in your case. In terms of expiry date, I think the same applies to the corporate world, or any system/structure that's built upon hierarchy... Just a thought.
Hi Mackem_Beefy - Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed post. It sounds more like a life story.
You said your first postdoc was the best six years of your life. One of the postdocs I know said something similar; he thought about quitting his PhD all the time (a bad boss), but he made it to the end and is now "a happy man" as he put it. He keeps his excitement which is kind of contagious. :) But then he was always more interested in science at school like you...
But perhaps what is more important than "passion" is the "want" to get good at it, or the "drive" to finish it...
The six years was PhD plus first post-doc and yes there was the stress during write-up of the PhD, but I look back and I really enjoyed it. I agree with your last sentence and whilst not the main factor, people in the past had written me off.
I didn't mean to make it a life story. It's just it was such an eventful period of my life that there's quite a lot to relate to. :-)
To those who are in science field...
PART 1:
I was always more interested in the Sciences (and Geography) than other subjects at school. If you like, I was one of those people who enjoyed Chemistry because I enjoyed making things go 'bang'. For example, chucking potassium in water appealed to me.
When I finished school, I wanted to go to Uni. to do a degree. Once that was finished I stayed on for Masters, more to improve my employability. PhD was only mentioned to me at the very end by my Master's supervisor, as I'd turned in a very good Master's dissertation.
At that stage, I was honest about my views in that Masters had left me knackered, I'd also had a period of ill health and I needed a break. It was a case of take some time out and possibly come back to it later. However, the idea was planted in my head and it wouldn't go away. I wanted to do a PhD.
An initial plan to go away for a year or so and earn some money led to an okay job that ended up lasting 5 years. Three earlier applications were turned down, but finally I was offered two separate studentships at two different but very close by Unis. After a lot of soul searching, I opted for one at what was an ex-Polytechnic over another at a Russell Group University. I had no doubts about doing a PhD at any point during it (though at one stage wondered if I'd chosen the right one) and once started, my mind-set was such that I was going to see it through to the very end. I enjoyed the science, the experimental work and because I like to work in peace and quiet, occasional periods of lab isolation did not unduly worry me. Also, having my predecessor around as a drinking buddy was a big help, though he stayed out of the science and let me get on with that myself (which I preferred). I also kept a structure to the whole project and ensured an overall experimental grid of comparable results I was after was kept to. Original data came quite easily and the data produced has resulted in the thesis and ten pieces of published work.
I had all the tearing my hair out and stressing that you do during write up for sure and it was very hard, however, I was going to do it. Up to viva I feared major corrections, however, a very unusual viva day indicated loud and clear I had less to worry about that I imagined. My supervisor had done his bit by thoroughly going over each part of the thesis as I wrote it, the objective being 99% certainty that minor corrections was going to be the worst outcome. A week later, the corrections were done, submitted and the hardbound copies handed in.
Now comes the hard part. As much as I wanted to stay in science and research, that was going to be very difficult in the long term (and it wasn't helped by a difficult second post-doc at the Russell Group Uni. I turned down due to some interesting personalities - all said before, not going to replay the record). A good many research posts rely of individual project funding that lasts two to three years at most. Also, unless you've managed to stay in research for quite a long time, the wages are not fantastic. Although you might have all the enthusiasm and drive to forge a science career, the short term contracts and the necessity to sometimes move to follow your career takes it's toll. It is no wonder that many settle for a mundane job back in the real world so that things like mortgages, families and children can be more easily managed.
I quite frankly feel many research staff and PhD students are treat very badly, as a cheap commodity to give other more established people data, results, papers and kudos that the people doing the donkey work actually deserve. It's no wonder many people say "Screw it!!!"
To those who are in science field...
======= Date Modified 11 Oct 2011 11:57:40 =======
PART 2:
That said, if I had my time over again I would still do the PhD as that and the first post doc that followed were the best six years of my life. Whilst the money was crap, I got to do things and use equipment I never imagined I'd get to use and that period gave me a feeling of self-worth I've never felt before or since. And yes, I'd go through all the pain of student loans at undergrad level to get there.
As regards people feeling as though they're not up to the task, all I'll say is when you first start on the PhD road that many of the people around you will have at least a few month head start over you. They are bound to know more than you and be more proficient than you at the beginning. Provided you get the support from supervisors and people around you in those first few months you need (i.e. helping you to become self-sufficient), that feeling goes away as your knowledge, competence and confidence grows. If you don't get that support, then it's a lot more difficult.
However, whilst there should be some support at the beginning to help you on your way and at points throughout as you progress, it is important also to remember that a PhD is about who you are, the challenges you face and how you overcome them as you seek to become a proficient researcher.
thesis length: humanities?
======= Date Modified 10 Oct 2011 15:24:18 =======
It's no good, I couldn't resist looking. The longest thesis on record is:
Bruce Williams “Archaeology And Historical Problems Of The Second Intermediate Period”, University of Chicago, December 1975
http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/DEPT/RA/BBW/BBWIntro.html
Quote: "As printed the manuscript covers xxxi + 2143 pages and includes 598 figures, 95 tables and 11 maps."
No wonder Universities started imposing limits on the lengths of theses!!! :-(
Quite Unhappy
======= Date Modified 10 Oct 2011 14:50:03 =======
Could the apparent lack of feedback be a reflection of their trust on your work? We are our greatest critics after all!
Thank you Skig! That what my hope is but time will tell...
Delta,
If they are happy enough, then just go ahead and submit. If you feel uncomfortable with the situation, then read through yourself one more time to iron out any more errors (typos, bad grammar, etc.) and then submit.
Is there someone that can read through critical bits for you (useful, especially if you're native tongue is not English - though I sense you are a native English speaker)?
If it does go badly wrong at viva, then you can make issue of you supervisor's laid back attitude then.
Ian (Mackem_Beefy)
thesis length: humanities?
======= Date Modified 10 Oct 2011 14:52:15 =======
There was a humanities candidate submitting at the same time as me who had a thesis extending over three volumes and a page count of at least 900 (nine hundred) pages!!! That said, a good part of that was collated data from the conversation I had with the registrar.
It made my 368 page, 94,500 word science-based thesis seem almost inadequate. I'd also put in lots of graphs and collated data, plus an extended literature review to emphasise the originality of my work. I think there was a limit of 100,000 words, though as long as it was readable people tended not to take notice of that limit.
Penalty charge for going over 3 years, common?
Ask your supervisor to see if they'll waive the fee given the circumstances. If you're suspended, that is unfair.
I payed over two sums of £250 for overruning and a narrowly missed the year four deadline too. maximum time was five years and my supervison team had a history of substantial overruns due to not allowing submission unless they were sure the candidate would survive viva with only minor corrections.
Unsupportive family
======= Date Modified 09 Oct 2011 21:05:06 =======
I was close to a girl a couple of years back and my mum and dad both fell ill. First my mum then my dad and it alternated between the two. There were a couple of rows with the girl triggered by a failure to invite her to my house on the New Year. My dad was poorly again. A further row a few days later over my apparent attitude resulted in a complete break-off in contact. She didn't even give me a chance to explain.
The next few months saw my dad go right down the pan and finally he passed away a few months later. She remained in contact with one of my friends and had to know what was happening. The situation was such that my friend was even wary of attending my dad's funeral in case he offended her and she broke off contact with him (he did come). There was not even a sympathy card from her in the middle of all the chaos. It's now nearly three years later and it's clear just what a bad piece of work she was. As for my mum, she recovered after surgery, however, there are other issues still to be resolved with her.
Yes, these things happen. Indeed. Hugs to you Mackem Beefy. Did you try to contact her in any way after the break off in contact happened. Did she ignore those attempts?
It was made quite clear to me in an e-mail after the second row from her mum, that no further contact was to be made. I made my mind up to 'respect' this e-mail as I had too much on my plate with my parents. That said, I passed three 'token' messages via my friend that the situation was ridiculous, though as I knew already these messages would be ignored it was no more than a 'token' effort on my part so I didn't seem the unreasonable one to my own friends. The way things happened, I very nearly came across as being perceived as the guilty party at a time I could have done without all the chaos. Hence my hard line view, that if someone has a downer on you that should be part of your support structure then perhaps it's time to distance yourself from them.
The girl concerned had already tried to split up some of my friendships at a much earlier stage, which I successfully prevented. She very much wanted thing her own way. If it had not been for the one mate who wanted to remain friendly with her (and still does), then the break-off may have happened earlier. She saw me as a potential 'trophy' boyfriend because of my PhD. How about me for who I am rather than some fancy title. I detest snobbery and arrogance.
