======= Date Modified 09 Jul 2011 20:20:06 =======
Bilbo,

I know exactly what you mean by your mind still racing.  I stayed in that state but slowly coming down from it for 8 days after viva.  I suddenly realised I'd been in that state for about two years (stress of write-up) and it had really peaked on the last few days before the viva.

I'd gone for a long walk one lunchtime I think 8 days later (final corrections done, hardbound copies in and documentation signed off the previous day) and suddenly realised I had nothing more to do.  I found myself thinking "Now what?"  I'd throttled down to normal for the first time in two years and realised I needed a quiet period to get my life back in perspective.  A holiday to South Africa followed a couple of months later.

(I admit the comical moments I mentioned on the shortest and longest viva thread did make things less stressful mind. That could all only happen to me!!! :-) )

As an aside, the wisdom of needing a quiet period was made clear to me when I started a second post-doc at another University and the girl who was my (de-)mentor was clearly in some sort of hyper mode.  She'd gone through 5 years before, but had never taken a breather following her own PhD launching herself with apparently the same energy into her post-doc work.  I found her Prof in one of his more civil moments towards me was worried about her fragility and looking back, I can see why.  You have to throttle down for the sake of your own health.

A old computing lecturer of mine said you need a quiet two years to follow (women seem to recover more quickly than men, though).

Even now back in the real world, I feel I need to be of some sort of help to others in the post-grad marketplace. Bar 'Delta' (I really repsect his / her point of view), the stresses and frustrations that many face during the process have to be shared. You cannot keep that level of stress bottled up inside you.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

======= Date Modified 09 Jul 2011 00:00:52 =======
Following on from the shortest and longest viva thing (sorry, didn't mean to hijack), a question.

What did you do once your viva finished?

If you passed, did you celebrate, how did you celebrate?  Honesty time, did you have too much to drink and do you have a tale to tell?  Or did you just spend the evening after quietly?

If you failed or were told you had to resubmit or go to second viva, how did you handle that?  Did you just want to hide away or did you just get back to work?

I ended up at the footy straight after (my beloved Sunderland - tale elsewhere).  My immediate colleagues who'd have plied me with drinks weren't there on the day of the viva.  The following day, I got straight down to the minor corrections and got the thing out of the way as quickly as possible.

I don't think I really got a proper celebration.  The reaction of my home-based mates was along the lines of "Thank god that's over!!!"

======= Date Modified 08 Jul 2011 23:59:22 =======
Question deleted about how people celebrated after the viva, as I think that deserves a thread of it's own.

http://www.postgraduateforum.com/threadViewer.aspx?TID=18773

======= Date Modified 08 Jul 2011 11:28:04 =======
In the real world, people just want to know the basic facts and in many cases have not the time to worry about the whys and hows.

In academia, as well as reporting the facts, you're expected to critically analyse the data with respect to other data and available literature.

Critical appraisal is a learned skill in some ways, though not that difficult once you get used to doing it.  However, for both the PhD and for any journal papers you produce, it is a skill that is essential. 

This difference in approach contributes a great deal to the perceived 'woolly thinking' that many in the real world think academics have.

You'll also have discovered with many academics, that at times a deadline or appointment time can be a theoretical concept rather than a set in stone point that has to be adhered to.  That can be extremely frustrating when you've given up the ghost then they wander back 30 minutes later and wonder why you didn't turn up.

My bugbear with my primary supervisor was his lack of a concept of Health and Safety.  I could not get across to him that I had to leave my experimental rig in a safe condition.  It was okay whilst it was running, but he seemed to have a knack of ringing right at the point I was taking it down (when it presented the greatest hazard to people) because he wanted me to drop everything to go and seem him.  No prearranged appointments with this bloke; again a theoretical concept.

"10 minutes while I make the rig safe" I would say.  "No, no 10 minute excuses, now!!!". 

Okay, 750°C red hot metal left exposed presenting a burn and fire hazard. :-(

Also, what about Safari?

======= Date Modified 08 Jul 2011 23:44:29 =======

:-)

I just happened to be looking at her as I was answering a question and she crossed her legs. The seating arrangements were such me and my supervisor were sat facing towards her. Nothing 'tactical' about it and it's possible she wears them all the time (honesty on my part, in that I suspect hold-ups before any male minds - like my best mate's mind did when I told him - start wandering onto sussies - though sussies would make a better story). She is a very dressy person but dressed for herself rather than the occasion or others. Definitely just a faux pas!!!

However, I was so wrapped up in the viva that I didn't click until after I'd left the room (as I said).

She's also a bit of a mother hen towards anybody under her care. One of my colleagues joked you probably couldn't get into her department facilites, because of all the cotton wool she had her own PhD students and researchers wrapped up in.

I also remember being sent to a seminar in Manchester and she was there. My supervisor (by then my post-doc line manager) had obviously asked her to keep an eye on us. We ended up being shepherded to the boards for our posters, after which she sought out drawing pins for the posters and came back with cups of tea for us (milk, sugar, etc.). She then kept reappearing throughout the afternoon to ensure we were okay and if there was anything we needed.

It's said many in academia rise through the ranks due to their ruthless streak. In her case, her ruthless streak must have been very deeply buried or she became the first person to make Professor by being nice to everyone. That said she was very committed to her subject and had made Professor at quite a young age (mid-to-late 30s). She got her PhD upgraded to D.Sc. in not too far over the minimum 8 years I believe too. Given her intellegence, I don't think trying to pull the wool over her eyes would be possible either (she would eventually find or figure you out).

I believe if she had to fail someone, she would probably not feel brilliant about it. There was a little bit about her that suggested to me, she probably still wished she was one of the students / girls.

Quite a woman actually and probably quite an example professionally to other women in academia. From what I know of her, a really nice person. However, one very academic flaw I think she might have had is her day-to-day relationships with people may well have taken slightly second place to her commitment to her work and subject area.

I'll add that given the fairly close working relationship between her and my primary supervisor, someone more distant should perhaps have been selected to conduct my viva.

Sorry, couldn't resist a little $#!+ stir!!! :-)

======= Date Modified 06 Jul 2011 22:37:08 =======

FOR THOSE MISSING THE DOWN POINTING LITTLE 'HISTORY' ARROW IN FIREFOX 5.0.

Move your mouse pointer over the 'BACK' and 'FORWARD' arrows top left on Firefox 5.0 (the one where the litte down arrow has disappeared).

Click either arrow with the right hand mouse button and your browser history will fully appear.

Move your mouse pointer over the history menu then right click to select the previously visited page you want to go to.
;-)

Congratulations Dunni!!! Well done, now go celebrate!!! ;-)



You commented on another thread that you have no passion for your own PhD, yet you fret for others when it comes to them doing thier vivas. You care more for the process than you give yourself credit for and I believe when it comes to your own viva day, you will realise that. Once you're over, you be over the moon. No matter how you feel now, the process does get under your skin!!! ;-)

The problem with the 'loan' is that some high earners will pay it off quickly and not pay a fair proportion of their wage compared to some lower earners. With a graduate tax, every graduate will pay X percent (probably once again above a certain level) and becuase the high earners don't escape after a few years, the graduate tax can be at a lower level than the 9% of wages (above a certain amount) that is to be paid.

Also, more people in this country don't go to University than do. Why should they subsidise in any way those that do? Yes, graduates pay back more in general taxation, but I don't believe that fully covers the outlay to send people to University from the general tax bill that everyone pays. We take out more, thus should pay more back to cover that. If they are asked whether they want their taxes spent on University students or on the NHS, it's a no brainer.

======= Date Modified 06 Jul 2011 13:07:50 =======
Interesting read. However, I believe graduates should contribute more as they take more out of the system but via a few percent graduate tax and not this ridiculous tuition fee system, which could lead to a collapse in the numbers going to University.

The Browne review doesn't sell itself properly, however, I don't think anyone likes the idea of being burdened with a 'debt' they can never realistically clear.

As regards feeling justified having a job, no, I just feel grateful to have one. It's hard out there (here) in the real world.

Isn't there an option somewhere to restore the little arrow? Isn't the functionality still available? I can still get the recent history in Firefox 5.

Unless there were issues they wish to discuss about the viva, that seems cruel beyond believe. It sounds a little like 'Who wants to be a millionaire' where Chris Tarrant tells the contestant 'I'll tell you after the break!!!'

Three months for me, due in part to my primary supervisor delaying the viva for a major seminar at my University.

======= Date Modified 06 Jul 2011 10:27:09 =======
NOTE: Actual years deleted, but it was a few years back (though not that long ago!!!)

PART 1:

My viva started at 9.00 am on March 3rd and finished at 1.20 pm. Lunch was brought in straight after. Exact timings show how stressed I was!!! Nothing in my life works out in a straight forward way and a few elements of humour and a few odd happenings certainly helped what was a tense day. I'm one of these people strange things happen to, simple as!!!

I knew who my external examiner was 4 months before I submitted and 7 months before the actual viva. She was a leader in the field and friendly with my primary supervisor. Unusually for a scientist, she was (is still) quite attractive and well known clothes shopaholic. Three changes of outfit a day at a conference in Italy in 2000 says it all!!! But I'll come to that later as she committed a little fashion faux pas.

It was a matter of getting the thesis written up and submitted, as expected a fraught process. My primary supervisor was not going to let me submit until he was 99% sure I would pass with at worst minor corrections. The whole writing up process took a total of 18 months whilst I was also trying to carry out post-doc duties. Draft rejected, draft rejected, draft reject, finally draft accepted with a few bits of red pen to correct. There was even the threat of primary and secondary supervisors swapping roles as my primary was in the process of retiring (this didn't happen). But finally, December 17th at 3.30 pm I submitted.

I got home after submission and my mum's first actions were to grab my books and say "You get to look at these after Boxing Day, it's Christmas!!!"

Anyway, it's the day after Boxing Day and I crack on. I was given a list of subjects (including experimental techniques and anything I might be expected to know) as well as the thesis material itself to swat on. I was told to keep a log of errors I found in the thesis, which I would amend in the thesis before viva to minimise corrections after viva.

Still stressed, but write up out the way (I could take the odd day off), I prepared as thoroughly as I could for the viva. But lo and behold, a knock-back, no date. What had happened? My primary supervisor had requested a delay to allow him to concentrate on a major seminar being hosted by my University. I understood, but still "$#!+!!!" But finally a date is set - Wednesday March 3rd at 9.00 am. Okay, I'm going to miss a Sunderland home game on the Tuesday night for last minute swatting. Er, no I'm not as I find out the game has been switched to the Wednesday after my viva. So plan is viva then to match regardless of outcome (that said, I know me and would have still gone on the Tuesday, as there's only so much swatting you can do).

The day comes and I arrive suited, with back pack containing notes, list of corrections, initial submission version of viva and tucked in very bottom, top, jeans, trainers, Sunderland season ticket and Sunderland top. I leave my match gear with my primary supervisor's secretary (and also friend of mine) and take PhD material along to viva room. Primary supervisor, internal examiner and external examiner are all waiting, despite me being exactly on time. Registrar makes a few comments about procedure should there be more than minor corrections and disappears. This is where the stress levels are really rising and I am like a wound up spring!!!

So we sit down and start. Presentation needed? I have one prepared? No. I reach for the list of corrections. Supervisor frantically signals for me to lose them so I do. So off we go. My external’s latest outfit (from her extensive shopaholic wardrobe)? An unremarkable skirt suit (unusually sober for her), boots, dark hosiery – that becomes important later (a moment of humour let’s say).