Oops!! It should be "Appalling". :$

======= Date Modified 22 Jun 2011 23:04:11 =======

That is outright theft and should lead to serious porridge being served (jailtime to those outside the UK).

I'm simply pointing out that unintentional simarality can occur.

Some former colleagues and I had problems with M.Sc. students we were expected to supervise during post-doc blatently copying sections of their dissertations off the Internet. A colleague found a reference to the author relaxing by the shores of Lake Placid in the text. I doubt the Indian lad concerned had ever been to the USA.

A number of regulars in amongst those students (again Indians) were those most likely to cause problems (they thought it was a great idea also to work fulltime in the local call centres whilst trying to do a fulltime M.Sc.). In contrast, two Nigerian lads showed everyone exactly how to do an M.Sc project. Two star pupils who did everything correctly and were clear PhD quality.

Who applied to do the PhDs? The Indians with the appauling English and propensity to copy. Some of the problem ones suceeded in their applications too. :-s:-s:-s

EDIT: Looking at the recent PhD / MPhil pass list to my old place (they should be through by now), none of them are listed so perhaps they were politely persuaded to move on.

The examiners will or should only ask what you're expected to know. Relax!!! ;-)

If they ask questions way outside your subject area, then they're not doing their job. A real probing is only dished out if they find something seriously wrong.

======= Date Modified 22 Jun 2011 15:53:18 =======

I note young Gadaffi's thesis is not listed in Ethos. :p

His older brother is there though (circa 1990).

Here's a problem with the plagerism debate. What if you have a number of sequential projects in an area where literature is limited?

The resulting theses would have very similar literature reviews and may even fail the software test despite the best efforts of the authors to be 'different'.

I had that problem due to myself being the third and last person in a 10 year project. I made every effort to expand upon the work of the previous two lads (one of whom is a very good friend of mine) and to write my own literature review. Despite that, a number of the same figures from literature have had to be used and similar discussions of that literature. I managed to pull away from my predecessors as I spotted some big gaps in theirs' and also, a few good pieces of new literature came along. I also suggested a different presentation for a piece of literature from the lady who eventually became my external examiner. Even so, to ensure sufficient original input, my literature review ended up being the same in length as theirs' combined.

That said, the software mentioned would probably flag a problem. I'm actually curious to see if it would. :-)

As others have said, you're unlikely to get funding. If you do, it's up to you, however, you're simply storing up problems for your future career (unless you can conceal one of your PhDs as a Research Assistant post).

I understand the professional student mentality, in that some find the student life a little too comfortable to give up. But at PhD level with the stresses that many face, I'm surprised you find yourself so at ease.

All good things must come to an end and it would be easier to end this now rather than 3 or 4 years hence after a second bite of the cherry. Also think of the place you're denying another potential candidate. Don't you feel just a smidgen selfish?

For me, post-doc was initially a blessed relief once the PhD was out of the way (at my PhD Uni. rather than the second Uni. - problems commented upon elsewhere).

I've been watching this as I was bullied during post-doc. You're getting out once your PhD finishes and that's good to here.

It's interesting to note they are gathering reports against the lab (and I assume the supervisor), so hopefully not too many people will be subject to this for much longer. It's difficult to get academia to act on this normally as they tend to close ranks, to avoid damage to reputation. For that reason, I never took action against my problem characters and just decided to try to get on with my life (a woman had lost an action against one of them a year earlier and that influenced my actions strongly). However, it looks like this person may actually be dealt with and his reign of 'terror' may be brought to an end.

Once clear and the PhD is awarded, you might at this stage wish to add to one of these reports. However, you may just wish to put the episode behind you as others don't like to rock to boat in a new job whilst dealing with debris from the old. People prefer to handle things in different ways I guess.



Either way, I know how you feel (there were times I was in tears) and wish you the best of luck sorting yourself out for the future. I managed to see out the contract (important for my CV), however, I was soo glad to be away from that place.


Chin up, it gets better from here on in!!! (up). You'll soon be out of this person's way.



Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Talk to your supervisor and agree on key areas. There is no way you can cover everything and you will have to neglect supporting areas they might ask on. You'll be surprised how much information has stuck upstairs anyway, coming fresh from the submission process.

Short and sweet, but only a week between, that's how it will be.

I've seen posts from people on here who know of someone who's done a second PhD in a different subject area, but not back-to-back in an overlapping area. There was a girl years back on Krypton Factor who admitted she was doing a second PhD straight after completing her first. I know this happens in Germany sometimes (the so-called Doctor Doctor people).

For me, you've got your PhD and shouldn't you be looking at doing post-doc if you want to develop your skills in a certain direction. I do admit that post-docs are harder to come by now due to funding issues, however, aren't you stopping someone else getting their chance?

There was similar on here a while back and he was basically told the same.

======= Date Modified 22 Jun 2011 10:46:08 =======
[EDIT: Got the prices wrong first time around - memory failing me!!!]

I was based up on the North East of England for mine, at Northumbria University (I'll say where as this info. will be of use for anyone up that neck of the woods). They could soft bind (fine for viva) but not hard bind. However, Newcastle University library (literally 400 yards away) had a proper bindery. Depending on how quickly it was needed, they charged a sliding scale from £25 for a week per copy, to £37 per copy for a 24 hour turnaround (£44 for same day service). I think Sunderland people had to jump on the local Metro to come up to Newcastle Uni. too to hard bind. Link:

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/library/services/general/printing/

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/library/services/general/printing/binding_price_list.php

Minor corrections done in one day, eight days to print out three 366 page copies for hard binding as I had my post-doc duties to carry out too. I admit I was so desparate to see the back of the damned thesis, I coughed up £81 on the spot for three hard bound copies to be done in 24 hours. Everything done in 10 days and my life my own again - yes, it was worth every penny!!!

I was told to avoid candidates possibly submitting a different version to that seen by the examiners, the internal examiner would need to see the hardbound copy. I actually took it loose leaf and he accepted that without hassle, accepting I wasn't going to pay binding costs just to be told I hadn't covered every minor correction.

The irony is when I bound it, I had two versions electronically. One with minor corrections done and a second with minor corrections and a couple of proof reading errors corrected, plus content pages correctly numbered. Pure cock-up on my part, I printed out the wrong one!!!. The loose leaf version and hard bound copy in the library are the first version (with conclusions, further work and references having the wrong page numbers listed in the contents). The PDF on their open repository (I donated the PDF when it was created a few years later) is the second version. Fortunately the British Library have used this version on their Ethos website. :$

It's a bit of a pickle if you're Uni. is isolated from other places and the New Unis. in the UK don't see keen on hard binding. Proquest offer a hard binding service provided you agree to publish with them (traditional publishing method), but that might be a bit long winded to organise for someone in the UK.

http://www.wearthesis.talktalk.net/phdgame.pdf

;-)

Seriously, my own blog on this.

http://www.wearthesis.talktalk.net

======= Date Modified 14 Jun 2011 11:43:43 =======

Got curious.

Streuth, if the institute is not properly accredited the qualification is not worth the paper it is written upon!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillian_McKeith

ooOoo, you may find yourself having to take at least a two year post-doc to pay the bills and most PhDs invariably overrun. A one year overrun is about normal. If you're in another job outside academia, how will you make time to write up? If you're unemployed, how do you expect to finance yourself.

It may be you'll submit on time or with minimal overrun, however, a post-doc is a good way of ensuring you at least have a wage whilst you finish up.

I'm with the 'don't tell your supervisor / advisor' camp I'm afraid.  If you tell him now, then he could say 'fine, leave' or at the least become completely uncooperative (you've said yourself he can be petty).

The worst situation you can be in is out of work when looking for a job.  Whilst looking, you really need to be staying economically active (i.e. stay where you are).  Employers are far less likely to look at you if you're not in some sort of current position.

I hope you're not relying on your supervisor / advisor for a reference as he sounds like the one person you don't want to rely on.  If you are, then only tell him once you have a firm job offer and ask for a reference only at that stage.  Have a good explanation ready and perhaps a little white lie is called for - even the most petulant person has to accept family reasons as an explanation.

I hope you get sorted out.  If you don't get a job, then I would strongly advise you to remain in a situation where you can continue.  I had my own experience of petulant and moody during post-doc and that directly affects the advice I am giving you now.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Now they want 5 or 6 journal publications, which means the work you've produced is of a better standard than you thought.

That says all you need to know. Well done!!!

======= Date Modified 10 Jun 2011 11:21:19 =======
That just about sums up most supervisor's knowledge of what exactly students and research assistants / associates / fellows (yes, up to that level) in their care are up to.

I'd put that down to sheer volume of people and material they've got to cope with, and at times failure to manage that. Do you honestly think many of them read properly the work you are doing?

Mine was an exception in that he at least read what was being written and would discourage submission unless he was 99% certian the person would get throgh viva with no more than minor corrections. But even so, he'd lose track of whatever else you were up to.

One annoyance I had was he'd sometimes want to see me when I was in the middle of shutting down my high temperature rig (mid-afternoon was his normal call-up time). He expected me to drop everything (making it clear he didn't want me to delay), even when part of the shut-down procedure had to be completed to ensure the rig was safe. I could never get this through to him and sometimes had to be quite blunt.

I was based in a different building to him, which didn't help matters.

:-)