On second thoughts- I think it's probably to late in the day to integrate this.....;-)

May keep it in mind though if required!

======= Date Modified 26 May 2011 12:33:36 =======
Hello!

In preparing for this viva, I've just experienced a 'light bulb' moment on how I could really improve my lengthy thesis, give it a real back bone and cut out some of the extra detail in my literature review chapters. I completely agree with my sups comments that due to it's length, in some parts, the thesis is far too detailed which ends up losing the reader (despite my attempts to link everything back to research aims).

Given that I have 2 weeks until my viva, do you think it's too close to the viva to start thinking about integrating this potential change?

I think this change in emphasis really helps nail the underlying theme and 'thread' within my thesis. I've mentioned it within my submitted thesis, but I think it makes sense to place a greater emphasis for the resubmitted draft (for a PhD hopefully).

What do you think? I'm thinking this would be a good way of highlighting a technique I could use to improve my thesis and reduce my thesis considerably. Perhaps an example of 'acknowledged limitations and plans for resubmission'. I'm thinking of ways that could summarise my thesis in a few sentences and I think this potential change will really help with clarifying some of my thesis arguments.

======= Date Modified 25 May 2011 12:58:51 =======
Hi Blue,

I'm days away from viva (assuming they don't cancel on me again). I've just experienced a panic attack due to yet more changes to my viva time, so we're in the same boat re worrying about failing.

I just wanted to say that I completely share your emotions and sleep deprivation experiences. Although I'm completely the opposite (ie an overly long thesis), my supervisors have similarly said that my conclusions and my discussion chapter needs considerable revisions and complete rewrites. I'm trying not to think the worst (ie a straight fail which is a common occurrences in my thought process) and concentrate on preparing for this viva by highlighting my strengths.

My understanding is that 'what's enough for a PhD' is some contribution to knowledge, originality and a strong understanding and critical appreciation of the thesis area. Being able to acknowledge thesis limitations etc is another area of consideration and something that their looking for. Furthermore, I think the whole point of the viva/PhD is to show that your capable of working as a robust, independent and competent researcher.

Given the extent of spelling mistakes, interchangeable terminology, omissions in earlier literature review chapters and an overly long thesis, I'm expecting a grilling for submitting a sloppy thesis. My sups think there is a possibility of an MPhil if I'm not careful in the viva. I had no choice but to submit my thesis, hence the level of errors throughout. All I can do now, is just try and convince them that my work is worthy of a PhD (and not a straight fail or an MPhil) and that I have a plan of action for what to delete and add for a potential resubmission.

You're definitely not alone. Best of luck with your submission! :) and well done for getting to the submission stage! :)

======= Date Modified 25 May 2011 10:45:49 =======
Hi Pink Numbers,

My experience is probably a complete outlier in terms of everyone else here, but I was made to wait for 4 months for a viva date, then 12 days before the original viva date, my viva date was cancelled as my examiner refused to mark it (because my thesis exceeds the word limit, yet he received it 2 weeks after I submitted my thesis). I had to wait another 5 weeks for a new viva date and my new viva will take place in just over two weeks time (Arrrrghhhh!)

In sum, assuming I'm not faced with further delays, it has taken around 8 months between submission and my viva. If I had known there was going to be such a big delay, then I would have definitely taken some time out away from my thesis, ideally a travelling opportunity.

I'm now knuckling down with my viva preparations (and currently revising some of my thesis tables ).

Waiting for a viva date completely depends on the examiners availability, their time scale and to some extent whether there are problems with the thesis (in my case an overly long thesis, although was accepted by my university! grrrrr).

Two months seems like a very long time to prepare for a viva- perhaps a little over kill (but that's just a personal opinion). However, I've tried to keep up to date with everything since I submitted, but in reality, I've allocated two weeks for solid viva preparation. I still don't know if I'm going to pass my PhD at the end of all this :-( I'm really struggling to cope with viva stress at the moment- especially when my supervisors seem to be ignoring me and keep highlighting that an MPhil is a possibility. Perhaps if I had spent more time preparing for a viva then I would feel more relaxed about the whole process. But, due to work commitments and family illness, I've only had a limited amount of time to devote to this thesis.

If it was me, I would GRAB the opportunity for travelling :) I only wish I had the funds to travel!

Also- check with your admin staff or whoever has responsibility of communicating with examiners re dates, your supervisors may not have any idea about set dates.  My postgraduate officer of my department is sending me regular emails about dates from my examiner and I have to keep my supervisors informed of any developments re dates. Unlike my supervisory team, she's also sending me lots of supportive 'hang in there' type emails which is helping me keep my stress levels under control.

======= Date Modified 21 May 2011 08:15:50 =======
Thanks everyone.

At the moment, I'm trying to shift all my energies and thoughts about failing (which keeps entering my thought process) onto more positive and more productive things- like what can I do now to show them that my work is worthy of a doctorate.

Given this lengthy thesis I'm trying to go back to basics and think of very concise and coherent statements of what my thesis is all about. I think with a 120,000 thesis, despite my attempts to link everything back to the original question, they've probably lost their way. Although I've tried to cover these points in the thesis, I'm going to work on formulating and preparing responses to potential questions that may come up, namely.......

Why have you used terminology X to describe your participants?
Please define what you mean by X
Why did you focus on this area?
Why did you focus on client population X and Y?
Why did you interview relatives?
Why did you not interview members of staff?
Why did you select methods X, Y, Z?
Why did you decide not to use method A?  (My internal has questioned me about why I haven't used method A previously, so I know he probably will ask it!)
Why did you only focus on client population X for study 2 and not client population Y?
Why did you use non parametric tests?
Why have you not used research study a in your literature review?
I see from your the questionnaires, information on costs was collected-  why have you not reported on it?

What are the main studies that inspired you to conduct this research?
What are some of the limitations of researching this area?
What do you think are the main weaknesses of your studies?
Please summarise your main findings and conclusions
What do think your findings add to your field?
If you had X amount of money, what would you do differently?

eeeeeeeeeeek

Hello friendly PhDers/ex PhDers.......

Just a quick message to check in and rant away with others who are going through this process or have successfully passed through this horrible process. My family and friends keep telling me I'll be fine- but they have no idea how tough this process is.

Anyway, my viva prep tasks consist of four documents........I want to finish this before 2 weeks to go. I want to use the final 2 weeks for hard core revision.

Document 1- Postgraduate Forum- questions and tips including Bilbo's 5/6 prep questions- i) originality, ii) contribution to knowledge, iii) hindsight/what I would have done differently, iv) why select my topic area, v) methodology, vi) weaknesses, gaps

Document 2- Acknowledged weaknesses, mistakes, errors, gaps- flagged. I'm thinking of putting this in a table- column 1- page number and mistake, column 2- correct wording

Document 3- Plan of action to reduce my 120,000 word thesis into a 80,000 word thesis- what I intend to delete and how I intend to structure a future draft.

Document 4- My external examiners publications. Detailed discussions on how their publications relate to my publications.

Today- I've reorganised my articles and general notes that fit into each chapter. I've divided each of my articles, papers and books into set box files- ie chapter 2- (box file 2, 3, 4, 5) chapter 3 (box file 6, 7, 8, 9) etc etc. Within each box file, I'm thinking of putting the articles in some sort of order- probably articles mentioned in 2.3, 2.4, 2.5 etc etc.

Since my literature review I've found some recent articles which support my findings as well as articles I've missed from my literature review. I'm going to add these articles to document 2 and 3.

All in all, feeling relatively positive about my thesis today. I have some great ideas on how to reduce everything down and rejig some of my literature chapters to improve 'the story'. I'm also surprised at how much work I've done over the last 4 years!

However, I've noted many stupid spelling errors which are sticking out like a sore thumb which is worrying me slightly! I also keep reading horror stories about people failing their vivas which is stressing me out! I really hope I'm not another statistic. Anyway, positive thinking, positive thinking :)

Anyway, forgive my ranting. Just want this over and done with! I'm going to be in a right state this time in 3 weeks!!! :S

Right- I've got my new viva date. SERIOUSLY panicking now!!!!!!

22 days left to go!!!!!!!!!!! (from tomorrow).

I've been told they will restrict the viva to one hour due to my external examiners commitments.

What will be will be. If they decide to fail me (which is what I'm expecting) then at least this awful process will be over with sooner rather than later. I'm hoping a 1 hour viva won't be as painful as a lengthy 5hr+ viva!

My blood pressure has just shot through the roof! arrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

======= Date Modified 27 Apr 2011 18:51:53 =======
Hello everyone.....

Just keeping everyone updated. They've found a new external examiner who has kindly agreed to mark my lengthy thesis in short notice. My new viva will take place in June- which gives me some more time to prepare.

I feel a little better (after lots of tears, despair and general feelings of apathy and disappointment and speaking with mental health professionals). I can only hope they won't cancel this viva and if it does take place, allow me to resubmit for a PhD rather than an MPhil. Goodness, leaving with an MPhil/PhD fail will just put the nail in the coffin with this rollercoaster journey! Anyway, I'm trying not to think of the worst possible outcome here and put all my energies into passing this damn thing.

In my head I've virtually given up on this PhD, but this news has sparked a new level of motivation to finish this once and for all.

Anyway, I think this is good news and wanted to share with other PhDers who understand this whole process!

I've spoken to some advice/counsellors, but I just feel so low at the mo :-( Apologies rant ahead!

I feel very isolated and alone from my university :-( no support or advice from my university other than the official viva cancellation letter and 1 email sent 3 weeks ago basically telling me that I need to wait for a new viva date. I have no idea if this viva will take place or how long they will keep me waiting! I still don't know if I'll pass the viva with major corrections?!

I was rejected from all recent job applications- (research assistant, assistant psychologist, support worker etc etc) on the basis of being too overly qualified (BSc, MSc, MSc, PGCert, PhD). I can't really apply for research associate jobs without a completed PhD. Last month, I was rejected from all my clinical psychology doctoral courses- for lack of a completed PhD and lack of clinical experience.

I'm 30, single female and still living at home because I can't afford to move out yet. Added family dynamic problems into the mix and watching friends (who are considerably younger than me) getting engaged and having babies. All adding to negative and regretful cognitions!

Anyway, I'm going to keep preserving and plodding along! I'm attending a group meeting for some voluntary work this week to give me something to do, meet new people and gain some clinical experience. Going on long walks, visiting the gym and eating well also seems to be helping!

I'll conclude with some positive thoughts! a) it's lovely and sunny outside! b) good old downward comparisons- I'm healthy and probably should not complain, c) this is (hopefully) only a temporary dip or state of limbo, d) I have lots of things going for me ie reaching the final stages of a PhD (even though I'm struggling to see it right now!), e) I could be worse off (ie worries about house repossession, dealing with relationship issues, my family are letting me stay here rent free until I find work, also other than my small overdraft and my student loans, I'm not in serious debt), f) it's lunch time :-)

ok- feeling working through the positives, I'm slightly better! Reading other posts on this forum, it's comforting to see that I'm not alone!

Sending some sprouts for productive and more positive thoughts! (sprout) :-) Looking forward to the sweet release of freedom from this PhD thesis! Apologies for posting this rather depressive post, hopefully I'll be out of this limbo land sooner rather than later!

Hello :)

Thanks for your post

I've received one email since the cancellation and they said there's nothing I can do right now, but wait. They will let me know when they've found a new examiner. Their trying to find a replacement examiner asap.

I've had enough to be honest! :$

======= Date Modified 05 Apr 2011 15:56:15 =======

Hi CathS.

I just wanted to let you know that you're definitely not alone. I'm in the same boat.

I'm actually in the middle of drafting an email to my supervisors just searching for some sort of support and guidance from them on coping with this latest set back- in my case a viva cancellation 12 days before the viva date. It's clear from my email that I want to quit. I can't bring myself to send it- so I'm leaving it in my draft folder for now and I'll revisit it after I've calmed down a bit. My external cancelled it because he thought my thesis was too long and refused to mark it. He received my thesis in October, so he's had plenty of time to refuse it! There's also the question of why my university accepted it as it's clear it's over the word limit!

I started this PhD in 2006, so I'm in my fifth year. I'm looking at going into a sixth year depending on whether they find a replacement, and also depending on viva outcomes- which is a terrifying and depressing thought. I've probably destroyed my reputation at my university :$ Also, anyone who looks at my CV will also see that it's taken me such a long time to finish this PhD (or MPhil) so it will probably leave a question mark on my academic record.

I'm finding it incredibly difficult at the moment. I have no idea how long it will take to find a replacement external examiner. I'm also seriously doubting whether I'll pass this viva. I think given the amount of work I've put into my thesis, my supervisors and I think it's worthy of a doctorate, but only after massive and extensive corrections. Although they also said there is a possibility of an MPhil if I'm not clear on my research aims which is making things even harder! I also found out today that someone who started their PhD a year after me recently passed their viva with very minimal corrections. I know PhDs are completely different and it's unhelpful to draw comparisons across PhDs- it's just adding salt into my wounds, although I'm delighted my friend passed!

I'm also experiencing loads of unhappy depressive thoughts and I'm thinking about getting some professional help. I'm not doing myself any favours! In order to lift my mood and encourage more positive thoughts,  I'm looking for a job, voluntary work and also attending the gym regularly to encourage some healthy and happy hormones etc etc. I also need to remind myself that I've come along way and I'm so very close to finishing- even though the finishing line keeps disappearing from view.

You're not alone Cath x

======= Date Modified 03 Apr 2011 10:53:39 =======
Hi Keenbean, yes,  most definitely. If I had to sum up my PhD experiences in two words, I would probably use 'emotional roller coaster'! Sadly, I've had mostly negative experiences over the last 4.5 years- ie almost all negative feedback, problems with supervision, relationship breakdown severely affecting my work, delays and problems with upgrading, and most recently, this awful viva cancellation. I also feel like a complete imposter and a rubbish PhD student as I've struggled with confidence and self esteem issues throughout. There have been a few positive experiences along the way- ie excellent feedback from my upgrade report and feelings of satisfaction and elation following from passing my upgrade. I've enjoyed working in this area and conducting a seemingly extensive explorative study into an under researched area. I've also enjoyed some of the academic challenges and working through academic type puzzles. I've also learnt a great deal both professionally and personally.

However, in general, I always seem to be in the depths of despair :-( and I'm seriously thinking about dropping out as I can't take much more of the emotional onslaught! I'm very sensitive to the smallest things and the smallest thing seems to bring up loads of emotions! I seem to be holding on at the moment (by my finger nails!).........

All in all, I look forward to the day when I'm free from this PhD (or MPhil if they decide to fail me!). If I had the choice, if I knew what I know now about PhDs, I would have stayed clear of it, but then again, if I pass, perhaps I'll feel differently.

======= Date Modified 29 Mar 2011 01:28:28 =======
Thanks everyone. Apologies, I can't sleep :$

Thanks for sharing your experiences of viva cancellations Badhaircut. I can only hope I'm not in the same boat as the student in your second example. :$ All I know is that this cancellation was due to length of thesis rather than a poor quality thesis- unless my university and supervisory team are telling me something different :-( (down)

Due to ESRC restrictions and extreme pressure to submit,  I was forced to submit before I had a chance to cut my PhD into the word limit, so I know there's a risk of substandard thesis comments-which is why I keep coming back to the MPhil issue. I can only hope my examiners recognise the potential with my work and recognise the work included in this thesis- ie 4 lengthy result chapters, 2 content analyses of 6 peer reviewed journals, directory of UK services to encourage future research and an introduction of new tools. All I want is the opportunity to resubmit for a PhD and fix the shortcomings of my thesis- and I'm prepared to fight for it if needs be (seem to be regaining some fighting and determination spirit!) I know exactly where to cut, I know what my contribution to knowledge is and I also know where my work fits in within the wider context. I've also very sensitive to the errors I've made throughout and I know where my weaknesses exist. Equally, I know the strengths of my work in relation to other peoples work- including my ex-external examiner.

Anyway, I need to remain positive and I need to try and work on diminishing this never-ending self depreciating battle that has occurred throughout this PhD journey. Roll on life beyond this PhD nightmare! ;-) Congratulations to those of you who recently passed! Also, to pre-PhD viva candidates, I'm sure my PhD journey is a rare exception. Most people get through without all these dramas along the way!

======= Date Modified 28 Mar 2011 13:34:07 =======
Re-reading the letter and my supervisors emails, it appears that the faulty lead recommended that my supervisors identify an external examiner asap. I'm trying to view this as a positive sign- surely they would not consider finding another external examiner and recommend I downgrade to an MPhil if it was a question of thesis quality?! Assuming they are finding a replacement, would my uni go through all this effort to find a replacement examiner if there was a strong possibility of an MPhil/PhD fail?

Having said that, what's troubling me is the unpredictability of PhD vivas and that even after all this I could still receive an MPhil if this new external examiner decides to fail me :-(  My thesis was heavily linked with my ex-external examiners work so it's doubly disappointing that he's rejected it on the basis of being too long. It's clear from the letter that we cannot approach the previous external examiner again- even if I sent a resubmitted draft for examination.

For the moment anyway, I'm putting this PhD behind me- as I've really had enough of the above :$ I'm literally drained from this whole process and I feel like I'm in a never-ending state of limbo. I'm extremely tired and I keep falling asleep :-( . Perhaps this is my body way of venting out all this emotional build up or emotional residue prior to my original viva date or perhaps even a sign of depression. I feel really sad that I could have had my viva this week on Friday if it wasn't for this cancellation. I would have some level of closure at the very least, even if it was a PhD fail/MPhil.

Given they all hold PhDs, they must realize how disappointing this is for me! :-( or for any PhD student! Perhaps my uni also feel let down by this whole process- given amount of supervision over the last 4.5 years and considering that my PhD was a very well paid scholarship (in contrast to all the other studentships in my department). Anyway, my motivation is literally on the floor and it feels like I've mentally given up on this PhD already (which I'm keeping to myself at the moment, excluding posting on this anonymous forum). I have an annoying little voice inside me that's urging me to push on and not quit, which for the moment anyway, is stopping me from quitting.

In the meantime, I'm focusing on my professional doctorate/ psychology practitioner applications for Sept 2011 entry and continuing my search for psychology research assistant jobs (ignoring research associate positions). There seems to be a very good chance I could get onto one of these practitioner doctoral programmes to enable to use my psychology training skills into use. In putting this PhD behind me, I'm feeling excited about gaining stage 2 so I can become a chartered psychologist! ;-) There are other opportunities available for me and a life beyond this PhD which is such a positive and uplifting thought! :p