I was surprised by that too - but I think ToL was just referring to imposter syndrome.

I agree - what is the point if a certain level of academic attainment wasn't achieved? That is exactly why I am spinning around in this dilemma :-/

If I'm entirely honest, I think my confidence has been affected by the fact that it hasn't been great, which probably DOES make me think it has been "even worse" than it has been / I've developed "even less" than I have in reality. If that makes sense.

I think there IS a genuine issue (there really has been little scope for development), but this is compounded / amplified because I am the way I am (I know what I want from a given thing - from a PhD - and I have high expectations).

I guess the bottom line is: I could accept that it was a very poor experience, be proud of what I DID manage to get out of it, and move on fingers crossed to better things...

Thank you for helping me get more of a balanced view of things. One idea is to get going on tying the thesis together and seeing how I feel about it then. There is definitely enough work/data to merit a PhD, so maybe that is the logical thing to do - WHATEVER I feel about how the process has been.

I don't think there are fees for the fourth year, aka "write up year"? But yes, you'd need to be able to support yourself during that time. In my immediate cohort, 3 of 5 have finished (as in submitted) in the 3 years, and I could have too if I'd have pushed, so it is definitely do-able. May depend on your area though and some supervisors expect you to use the write up year. Something to discuss early on if you're less keen on that.

Ps. What you've put in the second paragraph kind of concurs with what my mentor in the States said to me when I said I hadn't been developing much and it was depressing. That is the one thing that is making me think: just submit as planned, and get this behind you, so you can move on to the next thing.

Hmm, interesting take - thanks! In the space of the seven days since I started considering my options in this way, I've already spoken to another person who submitted for an mphil in her final year and then undertook another PhD. By her account, it wasn't about being utterly phenomenal. It was about knowing what she wanted to get from her PhD, and some good networking. There must be more of them out there!

I like how you describe it as a glorified apprenticeship. An apprenticeship in research is exactly how I view it, and that view informs what I expect to get out of it.

I'm beginning to feel a little like my account of my PhD experience (which surely I know best) is being undermined a bit.

Ah, yes, I understand about imposter syndrome. That's not what this thread is about. I'm talking about limited scope for development on my PhD. If I could say something like your first paragraph about my PhD, then I'd be a very happy bunny about my PhD. That's kinda the point - the thing I've been trying to explain since the start of this thread. Lack of development, lack of learning.

Thanks Eng, good points :-) I definitely need to choose an environment that suits me better next, whatever my next move is. I suppose what I am worried about is that I have gained so little from my PhD experience that maybe I won't be able to get a good post doc. But then again, thankfully, I have done some good networking and worked with others away from my immediate context, which could open doors. :-)

Well, one of my peers who recently got offered a postdoc said to me along the lines of: this has been so hard but so worth it; I have learnt just SO much during my PhD.

She found her PhD challenging. Now having done her PhD, she knows a good bit more than she did before. The PhD afforded her development and growth.

Would you say she is the exception rather than the rule?

If it's not for the development and learning, then what is the point?

These aren't rhetorical questions (although I do feel rather incredulous lately).

...then I need to seriously consider my options (which is what I'm now doing).

Thanks for the encouragement pm133! I'd say my brother is a lot like you described (he is very intelligent yet currently works as a washer upper while pursuing his interests as hobbies). I am similar but far less extreme these days. I've sort of mixed in a bit (a lot) of pragmatism - hence how I've got this far through the PhD though it hasn't been a good learning experience since day 1...

It may be that the best option is still to go for this PhD anyway - even though I don't feel I've got from it what I wanted. I'll try and do the most pragmatic thing (in terms of my goals and motivations as I see them in the immediate context but also in trying to look further ahead) in my decision. I don't want big regrets. Just need to get all the info to make an informed choice. I'll keep you posted.