I agree with TreeofLife, you'll be fine and you still have time to get results. I'm also 2 and a half years in and all of my data is negative. There isn't anything there that my supervisor would be happy with me presenting. I have loads of experiments left to do so I'm also hoping for some good luck in the next 6-12 months.

In addition to TreeofLife's advice, could you try reading theses of other students that have passed recently? I found reading the theses of my supervisor's previous students very useful for getting an idea of how much data is needed to pass and which direction to take my research. Good luck!

Tulip

Hi Jeff,

I can understand where you're coming from to a degree - I'm two and a half years in and around the 2 year mark I had hardly any data for my thesis due to equipment failures and failed experiments, and I think around then I considered quitting too. I'm at a point now where I too will need three and a half years for experiments and six months at the end to write up (with no funding for that final year). It's a long slog and it feels like there's still a mountain of work to do, but something makes me want to keep going and finish (probably being stubborn!). If you do decide to keep going, know that you're not alone and there are plenty of other students that find themselves with little data and a lot of work in the last two years of the PhD - hopefully just knowing you're not alone will be some comfort.

I'd also recommend not making a final decision while you're feeling particularly unhappy - as Ian has already pointed out you might feel differently when things start working out well. Also you've mentioned keeping your options open with industry jobs that may prefer PhDs over a candidate with a masters, and I think that at this late stage it could be worth bearing that in mind if you do decide to continue.

On the other hand, it takes a lot of courage to walk away from something that is genuinely making you unhappy, and only you know what is best for you. I hope you come to a decision that is best for you and will make you happy in the long run, that's always the most important thing! Good luck and let us know what you decide to do!

Tulip

Hi guys,

How is everyone here getting on? I've been having loads of up and down days recently - some days things seem to plod on and I feel like things are moving along, and then other days I remember how much there is to do and I just feel like hiding in bed all day! Feeling pretty overwhelmed at the moment! Hope things are moving along well for everyone else.

TreeofLife - that site looks really useful, I may have to go back to that nearer write up time.

matcha - how are the motivation levels these days? I wish I had some tips for you. I think the only thing that works for me is blind panic! Hope that you're feeling a bit less overwhelmed these days.

Sorry to others I've left out - I haven't really looked back at older messages (just posting quickly before getting back to work). Good luck everyone!

Tulip

Thank you guys for taking the time to post!

@MicroWest - I'm two and a half years in so I have about six months of funding left and then a year after that to finish up experiments and write up, so it'll be 18 months realistically before I'm submitted. How is your PhD going now? I think I remember reading your posts previously about sending out data for commercial analysis - how did it all go?

A bit random, but usually my posts are either doom and gloom rants or requests for advice, so I thought I'd post something positive for a change...

Today's a really good day - I had a meeting with my supervisor to discuss some data and we've decided that I have enough data for two of my results chapters and I can start writing these up! There's still a lot to do since I have 2 or 3 more results chapters to run experiments and analysis for, and only 6 months of funding left, but I'm finally feeling really positive that it will get sorted eventually. It's been a while since I've been feeling positive about my PhD so I feel like I've turned a corner :)

I hope everyone else is having a good and productive day!

All the best,
Tulip

I'm not sure what I want from this post, whether it's advice or just to get this off my chest, but it's something I'm really stressed about, to the point where I'm really struggling to work.

After a chat with my supervisor a couple of weeks ago, I realised that I'll need the majority of my fourth year to finish up experiments, followed by a race to write up in the remaining 3-4 months before my final submission date. The problem is that my funding runs out in September of this year, so I need to find a way to fund myself for a year while working full time on my PhD (which pretty much rules out part time work). I've spoken to my supervisor about the possibility of asking the charity that funds me for an extension, even just a couple of months of extra funding, but he has refused to ask. I've looked into whether I'm eligible for benefits (admittedly only online - I need to look into this further) but it looks as though the fact that I live with my partner and he works full time means that we can't get any housing benefit or anything like that. My partner's salary is low, so even if I'm eligible for JSA, that still won't be enough for us to live off.

I have funding until September, so I should be throwing myself into work, but knowing that realistically I'll need the majority of the following year and the worry of how I'll get by for a year without an income has stressed me out to the point where I'm finding it hard to focus on work at all. I've tried talking to parents, my partner, my less than helpful supervisor...but nothing is making me feel less worried. I need to shake this so I can get on with work or else I'll never finish this damn PhD.

Sorry for the rant - thank you for reading.

Tulip

Hi Bboy,

I think the question is this - do you still want the PhD? Is it something that will help your future career, or have you realised over the past 3 years that it isn't what you want anymore? If you do want the PhD, then it seems a shame to not use the work you've spent the last 3 years on and if it's what you need for your career then it has to be the priority.

You mention that you don't want to work with this Professor past the funding point, but the unfortunate fact is that most PhDs that are funded for three years do end up taking 4 years to finish. I'm in the third year of a funded PhD, but after a candid talk with my supervisor recently, I've realised that realistically I'll need the whole of the fourth year to finish experiments and write up for submission. There's no extra funding for this so I just have to find other ways to eat and pay rent, but for me quitting is not an option. The fact that you can go part time will probably help because I assume this means you can work as well as finish the PhD.

You also mention that you find this guy hard to deal with. I'll be honest here - as a person, I dislike my supervisor, he has no people skills or tact whatsoever. However, as a researcher I respect him and I keep a working relationship because I need him on my side to finish. Is this something you could work towards? The way I cope is just by taking a step back emotionally - maybe just take his useful criticism and anything that isn't useful just discard, and try not to take it too personally (easier said than done, I know!).

Hopefully someone else can give advice about balancing work and a part time PhD. I hope you make a decision that makes you happy, and keep us posted with what you decide. Good luck!

Tulip

My PhD was supposed to be very close to an ideal project - however when I started it was changed completely (different area of biology, different techniques, completely different background literature) and I now won't get the opportunity to work on my original project at all. At first I was annoyed and considered quitting, I didn't find this new topic interesting at all, but after a while I accepted it and actually now I enjoy it. It probably is that thing of when you get started and the more you work on something, it does become interesting. If you're yet to accept a position, I would say take on board what your potential supervisor is like - that can be extremely important as there are a lot of horrible ones out there! If they have current students try to talk to them to get an idea. Not trying to worry you, but it is something to consider. Good luck!

Hi all,

Thanks very much for the quick responses!

Socpol - thanks, yes I'm in the UK. I'm not registered with the disability service because I've never considered myself as having a disability, but I know that diabetes is classed as one for discrimination purposes, so I'll speak to them anyway and see what they say.

SimonG - Thanks for your post. I'd agree it needs nipping in the bud - the problem is I have at least a year, if not longer left with this guy so I don't want to get on his bad side when I need his advice for finishing off and writing up. I've considered getting advice from student services and the postgrad office, and then waiting until I need to apply for jobs before bringing this up again. But the problem is if he continues to be an a***hole about it, I don't really want to have spent four years doing a PhD and then be given a reference that wrongly implies that I'm too ill to work (as that is absolute rubbish!). It's his ignorance about it that could end up being a problem for me. So I'm a bit unsure how to approach this at the moment.

TreeofLife - Thanks for the post. I am relieved that my supervisor can't give information about health in references, but he tends to do what he wants which is what I'm concerned about. I agree entirely about not giving supervisors/managers personal information - I've learnt this the hard way! The only reason I was honest about it was because a) I was naive going into the PhD and b) I was ill for a few months before I was put on insulin, during which time I was really unwell and I didn't want to be seen as lazy if I had a day off work. I've decided from now on no employer will know about this.

Thanks again for the replies, they're much appreciated.

I don't have experience of robotics but I'm in the third year of a science PhD. I applied for an advertised project which looked ideal for my interests and then when I started in the lab it turned out to be an entirely different project. Similarly, my supervisor took me on because I had experience of the techniques required for this other project that I had no interest in, so I felt a bit conned to be honest. I stayed because my supervisor kept promising me that I could start the advertised project later on, and now I've found out I won't be working on the interesting project at all. Anyway, the point is, it's rubbish when that happens but unfortunately it does happen, but if you can accept that your PhD will be this theoretical project and not the robotics practical one, then you can still get your PhD. It's not ideal but you say your supervisors are nice people, so can they help you in other ways, such as giving you feedback when you come to write up, etc? Also you've mentioned that you do love your field, which is also good because this can be a long slog and you need some enthusiasm for your subject to get you through.

As for the lack of lab space, is this something you can talk to your supervisors about? It's not unreasonable to request space to do your experiments, and if they're not helpful can you try the postgrad research office at your university? They should be able to hound your supervisors to provide you with necessary lab space if they don't listen to you in the first instance.

I'm not persuading you to stick with the Phd or quit - that has to be your decision, but you have mentioned a few positive points about the PhD. I sympathise with being given a project that is of no interest to you, but it's worth weighing up whether you'd be worse off elsewhere. Best of luck!

Also another query - do professors in universities have to go through a HR department when they give references for their students out to employers? Or can they just write whatever they want and send it off to the employer?

I will get some legal advice about this but I'm concerned that maybe the way things are done in a university setting will be different to private sector/other companies. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have a long term health condition (I'm a type 1 diabetic) and, as rubbish luck would have it, I've had problems adjusting my insulin during the course of the PhD so had some bad patches health wise. I've always made up time off by working evenings/weekends and kept my supervisor informed, and I told him about my condition when I started.

Since then he's always treated me differently from others in the department, e.g. not letting me write up results for papers because 'I might get too bogged down with work and make myself ill', not giving me enough information for other chunks of my thesis so that I wouldn't try to work on too many different experiments (which has now led me to be in the final 8 months or so and I'm less than halfway through my experiments), and other things which I won't go into. But today was the icing on the cake - he's told me he'll have to disclose my health condition in any references he gives me for jobs I apply for when I finish. He said that he has to be honest because my condition has led me to take time off (not as an extended period, I had a total of around 3 weeks off as odd days here and there over a 3/4 month period, which I made up at weekends etc.).

I always thought that surely disclosing someone else's health problem would fall under the category of breaking confidentiality and that he wouldn't be able to do that. Besides I'm always honest with any employer about it so I would tell them myself, but if I'm not required to disclose it prior to interview, I feel that him mentioning this in my reference would prevent me from getting interviews. I'd like to know if this sounds like discrimination and who I should contact for advice. I just want to address the reference issue, everything else is in the past now.

Thanks in advance!

How is everyone here doing? Thought I'd pop back (during a moment of procrastination) and say hi.

I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed today to say the least - I'm working on 5 different batches of experiments simultaneously because nothing is completely finished, and I'm struggling to feel like I'm making progress because while I inch forwards with one, the remaining four go on the back burner. But at the same time, I don't really have time to waste - anyway I don't mean to sound negative, just trying to figure out how to get on top of this mountain of work.

Hope everyone else's work is going better!

Tulip

Hi guys,

Thank you for the comments.

SimonG - You're right, I have loads of other things to work on besides my methods chapter. I was hoping that by writing up some easier bits, I'd feel like I'm making progress. I need to write up as much as I can before September really (while finishing experiments, etc.). I appreciate that it probably is much better to sort these things out without the supervisor's input, it's just I'm at a point where it's hard to see that things will come together. Thank you for the support!

Dr Jeckyll - I probably should have rephrased - my supervisor isn't concerned that I'm stressed, I'm actually surprisingly calm. He has basically told me not to bother writing anything until my experiments are finished, by which time my funding will have run out. The big cynic in me reckons it's because he wants experiments done for a paper so doesn't want me 'wasting my time' on writing, but I could be wrong. But I will definitely take your advice and write up the optimisation stuff, the experiments were so time consuming that I would be a bit sad to have to leave it all out.

TreeofLife - Thanks, I agree with your reasons. I'll go with my original plan to include optimisation as part of the results chapters, it will save a lot of repetition too! How's your final year going? Hope everything is going well!

Cheers,
Tulip

Hi All,

A quick question for anyone who is writing up/has submitted, especially if you're from a science background - I've had a lot of problems with experiments failing and have spent a lot of time optimising assays before I could get any results. As a result, my supervisor has recommended that I write up my results chapters by explaining the optimisation stages followed by the final results.

So, the question - in my methods chapter, would it be better just to write up the final methods that were used for each assay? And then in each results chapter, explain how the assay conditions changed over time and final results etc.? It doesn't make sense to me to repeat all the optimisation bits in the methods chapter as well.

Apologies if this sounds like an obvious question. I've asked my supervisor for advice and he refuses to help, instead he tells me not to worry about writing up yet 'in case I make myself ill' even though I'm only 9 months away from my funding running out! (I have a long term health condition but that's another story...) Any advice on the writing up would be great, cheers!

Tulip