When an educated woman completely voluntarily and unnecessarily sells her body for money, then remarks "I stand by it proudly", I would suggest morality has everything to do with it.

Cleverclogs,

In my year and a half on this forum, I have never, till this evening, been as infuriated as I am now, so, yes, thanks.

You know what? In the western world, you belong to the time of witch hunts and burns. In the part of the world where I come from, you belong to those times, where it was morally wrong for women to live when their husbands died, and today, it is still morally wrong for many women to eat meat when widowed.

You might say 'oh, but that is unfair'. My point is, it is NOT a question of extent or degree. It is a question of us and them. Of holier than thou.

And oh, by the way. The moment you, as an 'educated' individual have decided that you are more educated than 'them', you have just proven that you haven't an iota of this thing that you flaunt so proudly - education.

An entire group of well informed, well read doctoral researchers are angered at your stance, and have, I beleive, with sufficient intellectual sophistication explained their views here and anticipated and set the grounds for an argument/debate.

All that you have proven capable of is stance-seeking, boundary-raising, fanticism.

If this weren't the liberal voice in me, I would truly be compelled to want you to just leave.

Phdbug, why do you believe it's ok for an educated woman to rent out her body to strangers for money? I'm talking about this specific example, which is unrelated to child trafficking, forced prostitution, and the myriad of other unrelated issues being discussed here.

Cleverclogs is hillarious. Some of us sell conditional access to the contents of our minds. Some of us sell conditional access to parts of our bodies. Some of us sell both. I find it very interesting how people feel qualified to judge and make assumptions based on their own narrow minds.

Cleverclogs it is 'ok' because she is the owner of that body and she can do what she darn well likes with it.

CC,

Let's take apart a tiny little phrase. 'It is OK' or 'It is not OK'.

First question, who decides what OK is? You? 'Larger society'? You on behalf of a 'larger society'?

Who forms this larger society? An imagined public tied together on a unified normativity?


If you cannot see that the right-wrong question lies in the things like trafficking or murdering, and not in normative perceptions adopted from moral high grounds, it is you who sufffers from blinkered vision, not the rest of the world.

That's like saying "I'm the owner of this hand, and I can do whatever the heck I like with it, from making beautiful art, through to assaulting you with a clenched fist"

There's a big difference between making art and assaulting someone. One is praiseworthy, the other will land you in jail. Same goes with the rest of the body, hence why prostitution contributes to moral decay and can't be defended on the basis of liberty. In reality, the symbol of liberty is the animal.

Other than the fact that punching someone causes physical harm to them. Rubbish comparison.

Moral decay? Jesus christ it's not 1922.

Prostitution causes harm to the individual, to the other person, and to society at large. It degrades the human station. Here are some statistics for you:

Suffer from post traumatic stress disorder: 48%
Threatened with a weapon: 78%
Physically assaulted: 82%
Raped: 82%
Raped more than five times: 73%
Current or past homelessness: 84%
As a child, was hit or beaten by a caregiver until injured or bruised: 49%
Sexually abused as a child: 65-95%
Upset by an attempt to make them do what had been seen in pornography: 32%
Pornography made of her in prostitution: 49%
Drugs: 75%
Alcohol: 26%
Would you leave prostitution: 87%
Need home or safe place: 78%
Need job training: 73%
Need health care: 58%
Need peer support: 50%
Need legal assistance: 42%
Need alcohol and drug treatment: 67%
Self defense training: 49%

What is the title of this table please? Source also?

Cleverclogs, goodbye.

If it weren't for the likes of you, argumentation of the fruitful kind would have missed a damn good reason to exist.

What you have completely failed to grasp, is the sheer danger latent in the moral stance you propose. A danger, to those who walk off the beaten track, to minorities of many kinds, to alternative voices, marginalised groups, and yes, to society at large.

I shall not contribute one more word on this thread.

If I'm so wrong then why is prostitution illegal? Why are government ministers and police in this country constantly working to eradicate both the demand for, and provision of, prostitution?

Here you can learn about the government policy: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/prostitution/ . If you envision a society where prostitution is condoned then you are in the minority.

From a government paper 'Paying the Price, a consultation paper on prostitution, has been published to prompt a public debate on how to deal with the issues raised by prostitution in England and Wales'

What problems are caused by the existence of a sex ‘trade’?

2.17 Prostitution makes victims of many of those involved in it, and of those communities in which it takes place.
Key concerns include:
-the nuisance caused to neighbourhoods through noise, litter and harassment
-the impact on the neighbourhood in terms of undermining economic regeneration
-and neighbourhood renewal
-the advertising of prostitution, particularly through soliciting on the street and
-the use of prostitutes’ cards
-the spread of sexually and drug transmitted infections
-increasing use of the internet as a grooming/advertising medium
-links with drug abuse / markets
-links with criminality, including robbery
-related violence, including serious assaults against those involved in prostitution
-the increasing stigmatisation and social exclusion of those involved in prostitution
-the abuse of children through prostitution
-the impact on their families
-people trafficking for the purposes of commercial sexual exploitation
-the effect on the attitudes of men to women, and on gender equality more generally.

Cleverclogs, is criminology and prostitution your thesis topic, or a personal interest? Just curious to know what your discipline is.

Ruby, I'm a biologist -- roughly in the same field as "Belle de jour" herself. I just found her comment "I stand by it all with pride" as inexcusable as her voluntary descent into prostitution.