I'm pretty sure that those people on Radio 4 or BBC1, "experts", who discussed the limitations of the study, did not discuss the exact content of the study, only trying to find ways to de-value it or ignore it. I don't say that UNICEF did not make mistakes, but there might be a number of issues which are worth being discussed. To name these I would have to read the study first though (completely, not just excerpts) and everybody else on this forum who thinks it's worth debating the issue...

16 years since I left school, juno Sport is excellent at any age though. Yes kids're annoyed with society and they need help, although when have adults ever understood the music/fashion/issues of the younger generation? Interesting what you said about adults assuming that they're trouble-makers - that fascinates me. Groups (not gangs) do look intimidating, intentionally or not. I bet that for every time that 'peer-pressure' influences them in a negative way, it can influence them in a positive way too.

It's difficult to do 'tongue-in-cheek' in text Otto, so take some things that I post with a small pinch of salt (although I admit to being a Tony fan overall... so shoot me!).

I'm gonna try to read the report, although no time at the mo - if you find it on the web, please post a link.

" Well, here we are again. The UK completely ignores any sort of criticism " Taking offense to this since, although I may be a size 12 I've never been called 'the UK' before!!!

(PS I'll try to be a bit more intelligent tomorrow - my brain's been frazzled by 2 VERY large G&Ts at this point - it's been a hard day...)

Sorry for calling you "the UK"...that was probably quite a sweeping statement.

http://www.unicef.org.uk/press/news_detail.asp?news_id=890

Otto, I knew we could be friends

Maybe we need to send us Brits abroad for a bit of (lengthy)fieldwork, to learn how to improve life. I'll volunteer for that!

I grew up on a council estate in a shithole overlooking the mersey. We had no youth clubs (knocked down and made into apartments), there was no football pitches for miles, the park was full of needles and bigger, dangerous boys, and drugs were cheap and very easily available. So its easy to see were the problem lies. I certainly dont want to bring kids up here. Although I think i turned out OK, in this country we make it very easy for kids to go the wrong way. ill put the violin away now

With due respect, how funny to hear the U.K. has no culture. Cultural events are pricey, but culture is all around you! History is literally everywhere! Just 1 reason I love the U.K. and long to live there. (I want to get my Ph.d. there so I might have a prayer of living the dream I've had since I first visited in 1980.) "Grass is always greener" applies here, but in this hick town I refuse to call mine, (think Florida "panhandle") we drive 2 hours for decent shopping, or a pool for our kids and a university with "culture" and like-minded people. To add to our plight, our family lives in Utah--a mere 6-DAY drive. Try driving west for 6 days from anywhere in the U.K. and you might begin to understand how I feel living here. (Or, you could hold your breath for 8 years!)

So, if you need a cheap lobotomy, or want to marry your cousin, come on down! If not, please enjoy the best of the best right where you are. And have a pint for me while you're at it! Cheers!

Momofive--as an American from the Bible-belt tornado alley part of the country, I can relate to much of what you say regarding a view of the UK. There is a perception that Americans have of the UK having more culture, a better life ( there are trains, Europe is just a few moments away, there is history everywhere...friendly pubs, etc...).

There is much to like about the UK. But its no panacea, and I say that from the ( limited) experience of having moved to England to finish my Phd. Its crowded. Its expensive. Eventually the thrill of walking past really old things every day starts to fade, and there needs to be more in daily life. On a student budget, access to some of the great historical attractions is out of sight ( eg. 23 pounds or more I think to places like Hampton Court Palace, the Tower of London, even 10 pounds or so I think to Westminster Abbey, St Paul's Cathedral...)

There are great alternatives and much more affordable attractions through English Heritage---but local historical attractions are not always respected--I felt apopletic upon seeing a child kicking a soccer ball against the tomb/memorial to Cardinal Wolsey...but no one else really seemed to mind.

There is a youth violence problem that is growing, so it seems, read about the constant knife stabbing deaths and attacks, not only in London but throughout the UK. Go into a city centre after a local football match, and see how safe you feel out and about.

That said, this is not meant to bash the UK. I applaud its efforts in many things, such as providing public transportation ( even if people do moan about the trains), trying to be environmentally conscious--such as take the stairs, not the lift, charging 5 p for plastic carrier bags, walking and bike riding, accessible local bus services, its delightful markets, etc. And if I recall this UNICEF study, the US fared as badly if not worse than the UK in most of the measures, so this is not a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Many of the council housing estates are grim, there are lack of play spaces and green spaces for children---the population density in the UK is staggering when compared to the US average ( 30 x more I think). There is real poverty--read the headlines about the fuel prices and concern about the elderly being able to afford adequate heating in the upcoming winter months. People in the UK do not heat their homes with the aplomb that we do in the US, its simply not affordable no matter who you are, people "rug up" in the winter, and while it sounds quaint or even cosy, the reality is that damp cold and chilly rooms take a toll on the health of the young and old, and people of all walks of life and ages are under a strain in trying to manage fuel bills.

So, I suppose in short, I would say, the UK has sooo many benefits to offer and can be a great place to live, learn and be--but its beset with its own social challenges-- no different in that respect to the whole of the US.

I'd totally forgotten I started this discussion: very strange to see it again

I feel sorry for teenagers at the moment: they can't do anything without the bloody papers shrieking about it.