Oops,

that should be the "not knowing".

Yes...Life challenges do put the whole thing into perspective.

I remember being incredibly stressed when doing my BA and MA theses....but after some major health issues that I had to overcome whilst starting my PhD I realised that life needs balance.
I hope you don't mind if I indulge myself and brag about my life history....I hope it will help others who are having challenges realise what can be achieved. (and I am so darned proud of myself!)

I was classed as disabled when I started my PhD research...with a pain and mobility condition that hospital consultants could not fathom....the prognosis was not good. But having research to do through my illness gave me another focus. I only managed little 'baby steps' each day, but I learnt to approach things differently.
Doing my PhD helped me recover ( I did not dwell on how rubbish my life felt when I was when disabled) But also... my illness helped me approach study in a more balanced way.
Now, I am not a huge bundle of stress when approaching the deadline....and I have the life challenges of the last few years to thank for that.
Of course lots of support, physio, therapy, Yoga, meditation, and hypnotherapy helped too.

But when I started my PhD I did not know whether I would ever walk again...or even get anywhere near producing any research.
Now....I can walk ( and run....I did a 5K a few weeks ago!)
...I have managed to produced a half-way decent first draft
...and I am going to have a baby too!

I have learnt not to get too stressed about my research, and used the Pomodoro technique ( I only do about 4 or five hours each day!)

So please...everyone. Don't kill yourself with self-inflicted pressure as you enter the final stages. Put the darned ting into perspective. And if you don't use the pomodoro time management technique I wholeheartedly recommend it!
thinking of you all... it has also been great to have this forum for support!
Matilda

Hi Matilda,

impressive story you bring forward. Incredible to hear that you could not walk and are not able to run again and nice to hear that you are going to get a baby!

So is your research in the medical field?

I agree that looking at the whole science / research / PhD from another angle really helps to put it into perspective. I mean, to be able to complete a project inevitably one needs to be able to finalise and to get a good piece of writing. But often the stresses are about small things, supervisors changes of grammar, adaptations of text etc. Really not something one should get stressed about. And agree as well that a lot of the pressure may well be self inflicted, it seems important to be able to say: This thesis is fine, I have worked hard for it, it is as good as it gets!

Hi Matilda and Rick

Thank you for your wisdom, and especially thank you for your inspiration, Matilda. That's truly impressive. Yours and Bilbo's story makes me realise that we can do anything, if we're determined enough, and that there really are more important things in life than the thesis. As I mentioned, I'm waiting and hoping that I'm not going to be given a really awful diagnosis - but knowing that other people have studied while ill makes me realise that even if I do get bad news, not all is lost.

Thank you!

Rick..
No, I'm not a medical researcher, I am in the humanities.
But during my illness I gave permission for the researchers to use me as a case-study...and I went to the academic centre on several occasions to let student doctors learn from me. I feel rather an expert on my condition now!
But I have become aware, from myself and observing others, that stress and health are inextricably linked.
Research is important...but health is more so!

Sue....I wish you well.
Matilda

Hi folks, sorry I'm only getting back on this now, sent the evening after the meeting recuperating and the next day travelling, but here I am! First though, Sue I hope everything goes ok for you and things aren't too serious. What a nightmare time you've been having. And MaltildaL and Rick, what an inspiration. Really helps keep things in perspective, it's crazy how the PhD can suck you in and it just takes something outside of it to remind you it's not what life is about. As for my own news, things are going ok I think, my aunt was taken into hospital last weekend and overnight went from being ill to being on life support, but I think she's through the worst of it now.

As for the meeting, it was a bit of a mixed bag. I had 2 of my sups there, the 3rd didn't even bother to say if he was coming or not. My main sup basically let my 2nd (evil) sup do all the talking, ripping my chapters apart, particularly one chapter which I'd told him not to read cos I was rewriting it, and I'd already started doing all the changes he was suggesting at the meeting so that was a waste of time in a way. It felt a bit like a mini-viva at times, they were challenging loads of things I'd done so I have to defend them and give reasons why it was necessary to do something in this way etc. There was some good stuff though, all the data is there, there is more than enough for a PhD and the results are interesting, and plenty of scope for future work, it's just all buried under a jumble of terrible chapters. So it all has to be restructured, again. I have an extra chapter to include, so my PhD will be 9 chapters, joy. Then I basically got kicked out of the office by my 2nd sup, cos he's not very nice. I hung around for a while and went in to see my main sup again before leaving and he started being all nice to me then, said he didn't want to say in front of the 2nd sup but if I need an extension it's fine etc...and apparently he can tell how stressed I am as my writing isn't the usual standard and I need to step back and try to de-stress and I'll be ok. So I'm kind of glad that he said that cos I know my writing isn't as good as usual which has been stressing me even more,which is further worsening the writing etc. He also said I've given myself a millstone in that I've got too much data for my PhD now, so I need to whittle it down to the most important stuff. So I'm going to do what he said, take it at my own pace, and see how it goes. He said to let him know in a few weeks if I need an extension and the viva can be postponed if necessary.

I really really really want to get submitted in time to do the viva though, I don't want to put it off. It's the same date as my mums 60th birthday and she's so excited that I could be done that day too. I feel better after the meeting though, there is really a lot to change, but I feel a bit more confident that I can defend what I've done, just need to write it properly!

I hope everyone else is getting on ok (mince)

Hi AQ,

interesting to read your long posting. I hope you feel a bit better and wish your aunt gets better soon.

Regarding your meeting that sounds quite positive, does it not. I mean if they have said that all the information from the research is there, then you are also nearly there! Probably now a matter of trying to stay cool and "just" to make the adjustments, like requested by your supps. In my experience supps and professors usually have their personal views on how things should be done, structure wise, and I think you have come a long way already as you seem to know what that is. Then it is a matter of trying to write according to that structure. I know it can be very frustrating, as obviously you have your own ideas as well regarding how it would be best, yet perhaps best to think only at the end of the whole PhD process and do as they indicate. What do you feel? Do you think you can add the extra chapter?

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Hi Rick

It is positive yes, in that the data is there, and there is enough for a PhD and I'm pretty sure it will stand up to a viva ok. The issue is that my 2nd sup has absolutely no concept of people interactions, and give feedback in such as way as to make me want to throw myself off the nearest bridge. It's all negative, he often reads things wrong and takes mistakes where there aren't any, and for some reason my main sup didn't stand up for me at all during the meeting even though my 2nd was being unreasonable and just plain wrong at times. Well except for once which was a minor thing. It was only after when I met with him alone that he was understanding of how stressed I was. I'm just seeing the end of this PhD as the opportunity to never have to work with my 2nd sup ever again. The extra chapter isn't much of an issue although I'm reluctant to make some of the changes he has suggested as I don't think I could justify them myself when it comes to viva - I don't think "because my sup said so" counts as a valid reason! I'm a bit concerned about it as he is asking me to write and structure things in a way that is different to what most people would expect to see, and I know a few academics who think some of the changes he has suggested are ridiculous...I guess I just don't want to accept everything he says blindly and then have 2 frustrated examiners in the viva who don't agree with how it's been done.
And my aunt is doing better as far as I know, thanks!

======= Date Modified 22 Aug 2010 11:26:12 =======
======= Date Modified 22 Aug 2010 11:12:36 =======
Hi folks,
Good to hear from you Rick, hope it all gets sorted soon, i'm in bit of limbo too right now it's not fun is it :(

I came back on here last night and seemed to have missed about 3 pages of chat!!!

So sorry to hear you're having a tough time Sue, i'm thinking of you and hope so much that it is not bad diagnosis, although like people have said here, it's amazing what can be done, despite these things. Keep thinking positive, stress really does make a difference to our health, so think positive thoughts, don't stress about it, and i'm sure that will contribute to your successes in the final months of phd!?

AQ, i'm sorry your sup is doing that to you, mine too, he's an absolute tool and from what i've read, yours is a TOOL too :) But at least over all feedback was positive, you will be fine!

So, right now i'm in submission limbo!!! :( BEWARE....moan to follow.....! :(

So I eventually went in to see my sup a month ago as i'd been emailing him trying to get my intention to submit form in for a month or so before that! eventually he got in touch and I went in to see him as soon as I had a day off from work. walked into his office, he basically threw form at me and told me to go find my internal to confirm he could do it and get it signed, find head of dept, sign and get to relevant office. I duly did this, however, he had put my proposed viva date of 30th sept - giving me around 3 weeks to get it submitted allowing time to get to examiners and them to read it etc!!
I tried to say this isn't possible I want a bit more time, but in his usual way he just told me to shut up, and get on with it, he wanted it in for mid august, and i could do it if i quit complaining!! abit annoying as I wasn't complaining just presenting the facts that I work full time, and was working extra hours as a colleague had tragically just died! I also had friends wedding and a city break with friends planned. However, I thought, oh well, lets get it done and then it will be over sooner than I thought and i can get on iwth life!!

I went home, and got stuck in, and have hardly left comp since whenever I am at home! I came back from our city break and got it all done, went in to see second sup, hoping to also see first, but as per he's AWOL!! second sup very kindly gave me his time and read through final discussion and summary, made comments, I changed them and sent them all by email to 1st sup. this was all done a week before he wanted it submitted!! Since then I have also put final beginning sections together, checked every ref against text, made sure all styles are in exact same format and am going through each chapter for final proofread! Also my sister has read through intro and i'm getting my couple of corrections from her over phone today! and partner is reading results chapters.

It's now almost 3 weeks since I sent this all to sup!!!! I emailed asking if all was ok, and that I had a day off for final corrections and/or getting to printers, but if not possible for then to give me a timeline and I would ask for couple days of work! heard nothing! I waited a week and emailed his wife (!), asking if he was ok, and got quite a curt email back saying he's fine and just back from couple weeks off! he then opened my email (this was last week), but not heard anything from him!! and now I don't know what to do! Normally he would get a chapter turned around in a day or two after opening email, and I get feeling he's just opened it to shut me up and not doing anything with it!

cont...

======= Date Modified 22 Aug 2010 11:26:40 =======
======= Date Modified 22 Aug 2010 11:12:00 =======
Also, he has my Chapter 5, last results chapter, which i sent him on 23rd July, still not got that back either!

He's always been like a petty child, and I know the more I bug him the longer he'll make my stew! But its just so infuriating when it was HIM who wanted it in mid august and now he's just not bothered to actually follow that through!!

Any advice on what I should do? I don't want to email him again and make it worse, but then there's a point where I HAVE to. so worried that he'll then get in touch with little time before my 4year deadline telling me lots of work to do!

I don't want to sound really pathetic, I know that sups are busy and he prob has a lot on, but he knew when I was likely to send it all to him and when HE wanted it submitted by, so he knew his own time line. why give me that date if he wasn't going to stick to it himself??

Anyway, any thoughts on what you would do, and how many times is normal to proofread before saying enough is enough?

Thanks folks, have a good sunny Sunday!
AL x

Hi AL,

must me difficult the situation you are in at the moment.

My feeling would be that your first sup has set the deadline and you have managed to complete things for that date. As such I think you would be "entitled" to see this as your final version and submit. Obviously I understand that you feel uncomfortable about this and that you would rather have both of your sups agreeing with submitting. As such it may be a good idea e-mailing to both and say something like: As agreed I have completed the thesis on (date) and have sent it to you. I intent to submit it on (date, perhaps in a week's time). If I have not heard anything before this set submission date I assume that you agree with it and will send it.... Kind regards...
:-)

Hi Rick,
Thanks for your advice. I have considered doing this, however, this is the first full draft of final results chapter and discussion, therefore, I would not feel comfortable submitting without any feedback from sup. Although sending an email of that type would possibly push him to do it, but prob also piss him off! :(

I think I will just hang back another week as I know he is busy with grants and ethics proposals too, and if I don't hear from him will email again, and if nothing then will start to put balls in motion for submission.

Although my second sup has read discussion etc, he is not specific to my area and is more medically based than science, therefore, I really want main sup to be happy with what I have written first too.

thanks for your advice, and hope you get everything sorted soon too.
AL

Hi AL,

what you wrote seems a reasonable idea to me. One week more or less will not make the difference and you are right, it is smart to try and keep your sups on your side. On the other hand, having a fixed idea of when things should be finished seems important to me. As such, setting a time limit would be good. You are nearly there!

whooo! What did I miss on my "day off"?!

AL, your supervisor is a complete fool. I think you should email him to say that this is your final week for being able to receive and do corrections, and you would really appreciate his feedback on this final results and discussion section. Copy in your second supervisor too so there's a trail. Then if he doesn't get back to you by next week you are ok for emailing both and saying that you are approaching your deadline and you will have to print and submit if you don't hear anything else. I know it's far from ideal but I'm sure what else you can do by now. He's probably just in a huff about something and taking it out on you like a big child. As for proofreading, If you've got it done now, I'd leave it for a day or two, then go back fresh as you will see things differently after a break. If you have to wait for corrections, take the day or two off to get some rest before the next onslaught of work! Good luck!!

I'm almost finished rewriting a chapter for my sups, it's late coming in but I'm past caring by this stage, if they want it done right it will take as long as it takes. I'm thinking I can trick myself into believing this so I won't panic too much as it seems stress is coming through in my writing, so although I'm still aiming for my submission date, I'm trying not to worry too much about deadlines...confused?! :)

Hi AQ and Rick,
Thank you for your support and guidance. I had decided that if didn't hear from him by tomorrow then was going to email, and then if nothing by end of next week email again and say i was going to start collating and get ready to send to printers. Luckily he's sent them back to me this afternoon with some corrections - but much to my relief actually not too many! Unfortunately, as per usual he has not put any comments detailing whether what I have written is good or at least satisfactory, but as per I just have to hope that it must be ok or he would have said something!?

Anyway, started on corrections, and then went for a swim to try and clear my head! when sending it all back the one thing he did manage to comment on, or make a hint at really, was about me working full time while trying to write (obviously detrimental to writing quality!) He sent me someone elses work along with me own, so I replied to let him know, this is what I received back having told me that he was working on both together:

"I'd been doing a bit here and there, instead of focusing on one bit at a time. There's a lesson for you........."

Feel like saying, well not all of us have money to spare, so unfortunately I have to juggle both, just be glad I didn't ditch the phd....! :)

Anyway, after being slightly p*ssed off by this, i've been for a nice swim and feel refreshed! I'm working tomorrow but off Thursday so have a full day at corrections! Unforts working all weekend, but hoping my boss might give me Monday morning off so I can finish tidying up, and then get to printers during week!

It's really scary though, just feel like I should read it and read it and read it until I'm confident it's as perfect as I can get it, but it's never going to be perfect, so I think i just need to bite the bullet, do corrections, get proofreads back from family, one last read and DONE!!!

Will keep you all posted about how the final stages go!

Anyway, sorry for the essay again!

AQ I know how you feel, but I have done the same thing, i've been working full time and if I thought about it all too much I just had a panic attack! I've done the same thing, stuck to my deadline plan but not actively thought about it, tricking myself into believing it would all be fine! fingers crossed it is though, i still have a month before my 4 year deadline, and i'm almost ready for submission, i'm a couple of weeks behind my planned date for submitting, but it could be worse!

Well done for almost finishing chapter, you will get there, just don't let the stress get to you, keep calm and tell yourself it will all be over soon!

big hugs to all, AL x