To Matthew82:

Ok, if the guy cannot perform -erectile dysfunction or whathever-, he should tell her beforehand of his problem and seek help. If there is a really deep, intimate friendship before getting married, they should be able to discuss these issues openly--same if she's frigid or whatever. I mean, there are ways to know these things without the need to sleep around and stuff. BTW what is ONS?

To AnnieG:

Unfortunately I have no idea on courtship for LGBT people, sorry. I suppose the deep friendship first principle still applies, though.

What ever happened to love.

Call me old fashioned here, but i thought love was supposed to be the underlying factor for marriage.

I think I just vomitted in my mouth.

Whatever for?

To Cryogenics:

Yes indeed. Love should be the basis of any marriage. Unfortunately, the world "love" is nowadays used in too narrow a sense, and most often to refer to "eros" (physical attraction and sexual desire) much in detriment of "agape" (general affection, rational concern for the well-being of the other), "philia" (friendship), and "storge" (natural affection for family members). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love. Having said that, it can be argued that in any marriage a healthy combination of these types of love should be aimed at, and not only the usually short-lived "eros" that has become the paradigm since Romeo and Juliet.

Back to the original topic of this thread, courtship can be thought of as a rational process for the deepening of "philia" and the development of "agape"--"storge" can only develop after marriage and "eros" can be claimed to be ever present, although in a latent way.

It's not even necessarily about a problem either person may have (erectile dysfunction...whatever) Which incidently how would the guy know he had if he didn't have sex before marriage? (I don't think masturbation always poses the same problem) You need to be "sexually compatible" which is a combination of things. But everyone believes what they believe and that is fine.

And also, sex is not a dirty word so does not need to be censored!

To katq:

You may have a point here. According to "hardcore" courtship theory (Joshua Harris et al), "eros" will build up naturally bit by bit every day during the 2-year process, so that the expectation is that on wedding day the couple will be so in love with each other, that the marital embrace will happen just smoothly and beautifully in a trusted and family atmosphere, and because they're both virgin, they will not be able to compare their partner to someone else. This sounds kinda idealistic, though, but as you say, everyone has their own beliefs, as in my personal case I know I just could not even kiss a woman I'm not married to--let alone the whole thing! Now, given the kind of replies in this thread, now I see that the long-distance courtship is just impossible during a PhD, unless it started before it, and if it survives it, the relationship will be stronger than ever. Any data on this?

To jradetzky:

>I would say a bar is the worst ever place for finding a spouse. Just think about it for a moment. Good girls/boys don't go to bars alone at night, do they? I mean, I know "that's what most people do", but it doesn't mean it is the right way. That's why I never go to bars.<

Good girls / boys??? what are they? No, people dont go to bars alone at night, they go with friends - nothing to stop you talking to girls who are with friends in bars is there?

jradetzky

I suggest if you want to find someone to spend the rest of your life with - stop reading about how to go about it and statistics about it and go out and do something about it!!! Girls dont want to be with someone who is too clinical about relationships - its very off putting!

You haven't even kissed a girl?!? That is definitely something that requires practice, being a good kisser does not come naturally and a bad one...makes me shudder when I think about it.

And... I found my boyfriend in a bar and he is the most amazing person and a great "catch", he definitely ticks all the boxes. Suppose it depends what type of bar you go to

Imagine you married a guy and you never kissed him beforehand and it turned out he didn't know how to kiss, only slobber. EUGH!

I don't understand what's wrong with kissing before being married. It's a way of showing affection and being close to someone you feel strongly about.