Jojo, I can see that Juno was trying to offer a balanced opinion to o'stoll's, for which I am grateful.

I would never see my PhD as any kind of monetary investment - you just don't when you do history. There is no money in it unless you are Simon Schama or David Starkey. So looking at it in that way just isn't helpful, and neither would be taking out a loan I will have no way of paying back. There are too many unemployed historians out there!

Hi Gamba, and welcome to the forum. I wouldn't get depressed about other people's stories. Every story is different and what is suitable for someone else may not be appropriate for you and vice versa. You are clearly clever and talented. You got a distinction for your Masters which is brilliant. Of course you need more time and energy to dedicate to the PhD, even if part-time. I did my Masters part-time working part-time. I am at the end of my first year of a PhD full-time and do some translation-interpreting only occasionally. The reason for this is because my project requires a substantial amount of travelling and researching abroad, which would be difficult to handle if I had a job here. Have you tried to look for an administrative job at your Uni? They are usually more sympathetic/ flexible if a member of staff want to pursue higher degrees.

As far as the funding is concerned, it is very competitive and sometimes unfair. Often there is also a lot of politics involved, department wise. Continue to apply, do not be demoralised by the comment of colleagues who want you out of their ways.

I'm not being negative and it's not a matter of being on "Gamba's side" or not. I am on Gamba's side, that's why I attempted to give some realistic advice in the first place. I just wouldn't recommend it, that's all I really have to say.

Juno - I have applied for several jobs on campus - admin assistant on journals, etc. I have not even been offered an interview for any of them. This is something else which just seems unfair. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is because in my 'career' I became quite senior and I reckon the university HR people operate a tickbox system and I am suddenly overqualified for most jobs. In addition to the fact that there are plenty of pet postgrad students who get the jobs and they have to advertise them.

Argh! I hate being so negative about this - I am actually a very funny person who has been very successful elsewhere!

Well, I wouldn't really recommend it if there was any other way - there's no pretending it's easy. But if you really, really want a PhD and there's no funding, part-time is a viable option.

Gamba - I know, it'a an awkward position you're in. I wasn't succesful either (hence the barmaid job). On the plus side, I can mix a mean Manhattan now - lives up the academic parties

that's only the case when you limit yourself to history related jobs. secondly, everything you spend a penny on is an investment. so even if you work part time, to pay for your full time, you are investing. if you invest more than you eventually make out of it, monetary and otherwise, its not a good investment. currently you don't have a life - which i've been through trying to keep up with jobs and a phd none of which was working, with a possibility of spending seven years like this... its up to you. its your life. mine is to tell you what i know. yours is to decide what you do with the information. all the best.

I wholeheartedly agree with jojo (and more or less everybody else). All the best from me, too.

jojo and o'stoll - the whole point of doing a history phd is to get a history job!!! Otherwise I would stay in my advertising career and not put myself through this heartache. But I want to spend my life researching and writing, not making money for The Man.

Juno, Manhattans sound great. I could go one right now.

Hm, from this thread I have taken the following advice - part timers should be banned/it is really hard, damaging to health and relationships etc. and you don't even make a good job of your phd while you are pt but on the other hand if you want it enough you will find a way.

*sigh* I guess I am still on my own then - it is up to me what I do, whether I stay or go.

gamba - i feel for you, it's a nasty situation. i find myself in quite a similar one. i'm not PT, but worked double shifts last year and funded my first year through savings from that. now the money is gone and a large number of funding applications have been turned down. like you i am still hoping for ESRC - the decision is due any time now - but it would be "fees only". i got a "summa cum laude" (i suppose that's about comparable to a distinction) in my previous studies, my topic is highly relevant (i've been told) and timely, but somehow no money is coming my way.
i decided against parttiming early on, due to my age (i'm 31 now) mainly but also because i parttimed since i started university and really don't want to anymore.

originally i thought i'd give it a year - until my savings are gone - and if i hadn't managed to get any funding by then i'd give up the project of doing a PhD. now the savings are gone and no funding has come so it's time for a decision... and these are my thoughts:
i really want to do a PhD, but not for its own sake, but because i want to pursue a career in research/academia. if the only way i can achieve a PhD is by dropping that goal (for example, by doing it PT - which would make me too old by the time i finish to have good chances for that career; or by going into heavy debt - which would oblige me to get a job outside of academia afterwards, to repay the debts) then i see little point in doing it.

the reason why i am writing all this is because it seems to me that it is similar for you. that's why everybody is saying that PT is usually no good: if you just want a PhD (no academic career) then, if necessary, you can get it by PT. if you want an academic career however, then, often, PT studies is no real solution, as it lets you get a PhD, but at the same time may well hinder your career chances (by making you old, by turning you off from research after years of misery...)
that said, some people obviously manage to do a PhD parttime in reasonable time. i have an inspiring colleague at my research centre. i suppose that kind of life is not for everyone, though.

I think you got to the point Shani. You are both talented and with an outstanding academic CV. The point now is about motivation. The rest can be worked out. It may take longer and go through difficult moments, but still you can make it if this is what you really want.
I don't agree with the idea that you cannot have a career after 35. I know several members of staff at my uni - two of them in history - that got their PhDs while in their 40s. Of course, nobody can guarantee that you will find the position you want behind the corner, but again, I think that determination is key. Good Luck to both of you and ...to me!

thanks Shani and Corinne.

Shani - thanks for all your input. it does sound like our situations are similar. what will you do? will you pack it in? When I see someone in a similar situation I just want to encourage you to stay and keep at it - try to keep going anyway. Is it worth it in the end?

This thread makes me wonder whether I should try this full time but I don't know where I'd get the money from.