Yes, I know what you mean but ideally I would like a career in research, just a slightly different area to my current PhD. Otherwise a graduate job would be fine.

I don't know whether you can get funding or not.
But I really admire you! I think I will go for a second PhD after (and when) I finish this one, as I work in a totally different area than my PhD, and my job allows me to do research, so it would be rather easy. Also, I study a lot in order to do my job, so I already have the theoretical background... Theo only thing is to finish PhD1 and to find a surervisor for PhD2....
Hmmmmm........
I guess I should go and do some more analysis now.....

Hi Cm30, I was all for you doing it until I realised you were thinking of ecology/conservation and I think it's pointless. I'm kind of in this field, and the best way to get job in it is working. Having a PhD in one specific area will qualify you for that specific area, it will still be difficult to have a range of experience that will have more jobs open to you. To get ahead in ecology/conservation, they put big stock behind volunteer work, for your local wildlife trust for example. You get to network and it shows that you care enough about the work to do it for free. Honestly, I know loads of people with undergrad degrees who have volunteered for years getting jobs easily over masters people, and in academia, once you have your PhD in a specific area, it can be hard to work in several ecology areas. I think the best option would be for you to do an ecology/conservation masters, there are plenty of them about and the experience would be much more varied and much better than doing another PhD. Speak to potential supervisors though firsst, and see that they think as they will know the field the best. Also if there is a particular uni you would like to post-doc in, speak to the people there and see what they are looking for in candidates and just do what you have to to get the job. Good luck!

Thanks for that, that's really good advice!

OK I'll try not to give you the advice you have not asked for and try to answer the question you have actually asked.

I certainly know someone in the UK who did a PhD in another country and is doing a 2nd funded PhD in the UK. So I think you *can* get funded for a 2nd PhD. The reason is this. A PhD student is seen a bit like any other worker. You do a certain amount of work for them and they pay you for it. It is not like asking for an undergraduate scholarship favour, where you have to prove that unless they give you the money, you'll remain illiterate. Lol. :-)

I have actually come to think that academics often see PhD students as a cheaper option to postdocs. That is probably why you see so many PhD positions but very few postdoc ones in the UK currently. They are essentially getting a postdoc's job done through PhD students, who are a bit cheaper to employ. It is totally ridiculous and it undermines research.

Anyway, good luck with your job/PhD search! The best thing is to contact the potential department and ask them bluntly and honestly.

Thanks Nharding! That's exactly what I mean. I love doing research and happy to do a pot docs job for a PhD students pay level as I enjoy it and there just aren't many post doc jobs around at the moment! Thanks for your advice!

I don't think what you say about 'how PhD students are seen' can be the case. Even if the PhD student doesn't attend lessons, s/he still is learning and developing. Work needs to be supervised. So in most ways it is for a personal achievement. You don't 'get paid' to do a job. How much money you receive is not the only amount involved in PhD student's funding. Besides there are so many self-funded PhD students too. Does that mean they are doing a voluntary job? No matter what we call ourselves, being a PhD canditae involves studentship. And the funding for PhDs and postdocs don't necessarily come from the same sources.

I wonder about the funding because the UK has a rule about funding study at lower or equivalent level - this certainly applies at undergrad level, and means you have to pay the full tuition fees, not the government-subsidised rate most home students pay. I was lucky that when I did my second BSc (don't ask!) I could get another student loan and pay the reduced fees only, but now it's changed. For example I know someone who wants to go to medical school as a graduate, but is struggling to find the funds to do so, as they'd have to pay full fees, which is a lot! It might be different for PhDs, I guess you'd have to find out from the research council that would be funding you.

Not sure about your field, but certainly the MRC and possibly some other, have career development fellowships which are specifically for post-docs wishing to move into a slightly different field

Yes indeed, PhD funding doesn't involving just the stipend, it involves the fees paid on the student's behalf, plus other expenses like conferences etc. But even then it works out cheaper than a postdoc, whose salary is usually more than double than a PhD stipend, plus they have to contribute to pension scheme etc on the postdoc's behalf. So a postdoc certainly is more expensive (senior professors have told me this).

I have seen how this works - in some well-reputed UK universities. The task they gave a PhD student would not be too different from that expected from a postdoc. But postdocs are pressurised under a kind of guilty feeling that they are hogging more money.

There is no other way you can explain why there are so many PhD places, without there being a similar number of new postdoc places. If you're not going to channel the PhD intellect in a proper direction, why create such a pool in the first place? It's a huge imbalance. Research Councils have really messed it up big time in their lunatic bid to save money.