Quite frankly I am staggered and depressed by some of the experiences on this thread. Due to the robust application, supervision, training and review processes now demanded by all of the major research councils, it is now without question every University's duty to offer adequate and ongoing support and advice throughout the lifetime of a research student's project. Any supervisor worth their salt will spot flaws and weaknesses as the project takes shape so that, thankfully, failing a PhD at the very final hurdle - by offering an unsound thesis - is now becoming almost unheard of. While this is cold comfort to some of the writers here - and I am personally angered by your own experiences - I would argue strongly that only bad supervision will lead to a disappointing outcome - even the most stubborn external examiner will be drawn to pass a thesis that is clearly of the correct standard.

So for all you continuing PhD students out there - demand only the highest levels of attention from your supervisory team - you are not expected to work in isolation without rigorous feedback - , and if all else fails, change your supervisor - most universities will allow this nowadays.

It saddens me to read the endless bad experiences that people have. I have been plodding along for three years and have no idea if my work is up to PhD standards even though I had regular meetings with sup and pubblished papers.

Its sad that there is no strong structure in obtaining a PhD, and that's what makes a PhD twice as difficult and quite frankly a mockery. Because there is a massive element of luck. Luck of who your supervisor is, who your external and internal examiners are and luck of whether your sup was thinking clearly when writing that bid for funding or whether he/she was on cloud cookoo land that day.

My sup is an old boy, been in academia all his life. He's like a bully in a playground knows everyone and everyone fears him. I have had endless shouting arguments with him, but now I play along with it cos its easier on me and my stress levels. But I do sit quietly and think he would have never lasted 1 day in the real working world. For the love of God, he can't even keep his own budgets updated, let alone manage people.

To let you submit a PhD thesis which had a chance of not being worthy of a PhD is wrong and you should be sacked for it, but who is there to discipline these old guns sitting in their little cosy worlds. Sadly no one.

I really don't know what to suggest, but I fealt I had to write as it hit me hard your story. I for sure for the past three years have been persuading as many people as possible NOT to go near PhDs because its all fortune and talent is meaningless.

Folks who've signed up for x number of years doing post-docs will find this hard to swallow or think themselves lucky, but its true and the stories you hear on here say it all. You don't get forums like this for a Mathematics undergraduate degree or similar.

Don-Eng your supervisor sounds exactly like mine.  He used to bring in stacks of cash to the university and was indulged as a result so he was never challenged regardless of how badly he behaved. He is belligerent and will never even contemplate the possibility that he might be wrong.  I have seem him reduce undergrads to tears (unless they happen to be blond and pretty - seriously). When I challenged him over his lack of interest in my PhD, he actually told me that he thought I'd given up!  Fortunately he is now retiring.

I totally agree with you that the PhD process in the UK is as much about luck as anything else.  I ended up with poor supervisors but fortunately I chose good examiners who have been nothing but superb otherwise I would have failed. There really aren't the safeguards with PhD supervision that there with undergrad studies.  I'm also a lecturer and my teaching and assessing activities for undergrad and taught postgrad programmes are closely monitored both internally and externally. As far as I can tell there is no such process for PhDs. 

My PhD has been an exercise in endurance and I feel no better equipped for research than I did when I started. I am lucky that I have great colleagues who I collaborate with and working with them has taught me far more than my supervisor ever did. 

I'm sorry for what has happened to every one on this site. If you read my story you will realise I feel cheated as well. Has anyone got any advice on how to put this on a C.V? I did not "fail" because I was not allowed to submit...I did not "quit" so I do not want to put down I did not complete. If I explain what happened to me I sound like I am criticising a University, which never impresses any-one! My University Post Grad officer today suggested I should say I left for personal reasons...which after spending years doing a p-t PhD would make me look like a total flake! Surely studying for years at PhD level counts for something?

Excellent post, Don-eng.

How are you getting on now, Olivia? I sincerely hope things have worked out successfully. It is a travesty that your university and in particular your supervisor have allowed this to happen. It is wrong on every count. You will come out stronger for it.

Hi Olivia, I feel your pain...seriously. I was stopped doing my viva last week because the work I did, after six years part-time has instances of plagiarism!!

Believe me, this is total nonsense and I would've thought that my supe' would've spotted a potential disaster like this coming IF he was reading my work.

To say that I'm gutted is an understatment. Like you, when my supe' signed off on my work and I sent through the work, I thought 'Great! These guys don't put their name to things with a view to failing....surely?' but I was so wrong.

I would imagine that most of us doing a PhD didn't start this nightmare off to fail in the last year. Also, its important to note that its' very easy to point the finger of blame when we get a bad result.

So, realisitcally, I'm willing to change, re-word, remove or otherwise to achieve the result that I set out for. I don't think that PhD students are quitters...not by a long shot. We tend to persevere, work hard and are generally bright enough, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten as far as we have..right?

My college is in the UK, NI to be precise....

======= Date Modified 11 Oct 2010 21:21:44 =======
Thanks to everyone who posted their support - this is a belated update - I won my appeal on procedural grounds - and on paper - which was a disappointment because I had really geared myself up for a hearing!! I wanted my day in court!! I wanted to see those examiners squirm and my superviser too!

So here I am a year after hearing that I had won my appeal with time left to resubmit and the lastest is, I am sure some of you will not be surprised to hear, that somehow I just can't make myself look at this piece of work that has taken up so much time and caused me so much heartache. I have sought help and to anyone in my position I would point you in the direction of a book by Dina Glouberman, "The Joy of Burnout" - this has really helped me to realise that when you reach a complete standstill like I have there are always other options in life. You need to accept that some parts of your life now no longer fit and other paths will open up for you.

I haven't made my final decision about my thesis - my thinking about it is still tied up with fury and disappointment about how I have been treated by these selfish academics - it will take an immense amount of strength to push all the rubbish and anger out of my mind and focus on the work again - but it is not enough now for me to say "I'm not going to let these people do this to me" - I no longer care what they thought of my work, I remain furious about how they did it. To anyone thinking of doing a part-time PhD in the UK I would say this - think very very carefully before committing - you will spend time, energy and money and may get very little back in return from those who are there supposedly to help you. Good luck everyone.

Glad you won your appeal. Good luck for the future, whatever you decide to do.

It sounds as though you were very unlucky though. Not all part-time PhDs are so bad. But your experience was tough.

Well done on winning your appeal - that must have taken a lot of determination. I'm sure you've given this plenty of thought and, whilst your feelings about your thesis are understandable, think even longer and harder if you're considering not resubmitting only because of all the anger and frustration you associate with it. You didn't mention any other reasons for not wanting to complete it. I understand it would be difficult, but is it still something you'd like to finish?

Good luck with whatever you decide (up)

======= Date Modified 12 Oct 2010 20:45:54 =======
Thinking about my update overnight I realise I’ve left out a lot of important things that I have learned through as a result of what has happened to me. If you are reading this because you fear you might fail, are rewriting or have been failed and are wondering what to do, or even just setting out and looking at this with horror, I hope what I have suggested below will be useful to you –

1. As a part-time PhD student your time will be limited but do get to as many seminars and conferences as you can, even before you start your PhD – you need to know people in your field – these are the ones who can best advise you on your choice of supervisor and examiners … As a part-timer it is very easy to become isolated.

2. When finding a supervisor, listen to what others have to say about your choices … if you are not getting good feedback, save yourself a heap of trouble and look elsewhere …

3. Most colleges in the UK now set out in detail what is expected of supervisor and supervisee (i.e. you). If you feel your supervisor is not doing what he or she should be, deal with it – it may be difficult but much harder in the long run to fail because you didn’t.

4. Take an active part in the selection of your examiners – if you have reservations about them say so, jump up and down, refuse them!! Your supervisor really should include you in the discussion and if you aren’t don’t just go along with the choice. My advice is also very firmly to avoid retired and very new examiners.

5. Make sure you discuss with your supervisor exactly what is expected of you and what can happen during the viva. Be as prepared as you can be. Ask for advice for how to respond if things start to go really badly. Practice assertive responses. Read the regulations, choose whether you want the supervisor in the room – in the UK this is usual and I would think very desirable – some colleges even provide for a neutral chairperson who will keep the examiners in check and prevent the kind of viva I had. Be aware that you can ask for a break … Read the regulations for examiners conducting vivas …

6. If things go very badly and you are offered something less during the PhD during the viva, do not feel obliged or pressured to say “yes”! You need time to think about what has happened and what can be done about it.

7. If you are not given the opportunity to resubmit your work go back to the academic regulations of your institution immediately. There will only be certain grounds upon which you can appeal – and difference of academic opinion is not one of them. Consider carefully how your viva was conducted and whether the requirements of the college have been fulfilled by the examiners in their reports – in my case they had not. In the UK you will receive the joint final report of the examiners, but most colleges do not give you the preliminary reports unless you ask. You need to see these too. They are crucial and will be the key to whether any administrative error has been made in your examination.

8. Find out who deals with complaints/appeals in your college – there will be an academic registrar and this person may not be easy to track down. This is an administrator who will probably tell you, oh dear, well appeals don’t usually succeed, but will invite you to submit your complaint. Be aware there will be a timetable for complaints and you may have something like 3 months to put together a full statement with supporting documents.

9. If you have the contacts or the money, seek the opinion of an education lawyer … I did. Also, try the Student Union – mine didn’t have the experience to help me but they did listen and keep in touch. Get as much support and help as you can as soon as you can – from counsellors if you can, as friends and partners are only human too …

continues above ...

======= Date Modified 12 Oct 2010 20:46:34 =======
======= Date Modified 12 Oct 2010 20:43:11 =======
Sorry - I think this post got a bit too long for the space and got cut off ... here is the rest of it ...

10. Be aware that your supervisor and your department may be so unsupportive that you feel completely alone. But you may be lucky and your supervisor may immediately pick up the cudgels on your behalf – I have heard that this has happened to fortunate others, although not me … This is why having made contacts and friends right from the start of your PhD is so useful – these are the people who will now make suggestions and support you.

11. Be prepared for a long wait – my college took months and months to deal with my appeal and neither he, his office or my department would communicate with me during this period. It was an extremely painful and frustrating time.

12. When you do finally hear back from the appeals office and you have won, be prepared to do all the running regarding your (new?) supervisor, (new?) department, finding out how long you have to resubmit, arguing about whether you have to pay any more fees (yes they undoubtedly will try this one!!).

13. Now try to use all the resources at your disposal to rewrite your thesis bearing in mind that if there has been a hideous error in the examination in the first place, there will be little help to be had from the reports of the examiners.

I’ve tried to set out the stages I’ve been through, obviously there is a lot more that can be said about regulations but each case varies. I would also say, never give up, but actually, it may be giving up is the best thing for your mental health. Only you can decide – as Morrissey once sang, “There’s more to life than this you know …”, you fill in the blanks!

Very best of luck.

Hi Olivia

You really should send your experiences and your advice to Prof John Wakeford at the Messenden Centre. He specialises in situations like yours and offers free help and advice. Your situation was completely avoidable and so unfortunate but others facing similar difficulties might be able to benefit from your advice and experience. John uses real cases to advise other students so it's really worthwhile getting in touch. You don't have to reveal your name or any personal details to him. He came to give a seminar on these issues at our uni and it was helpful to know what to do and where to go if this situation arises.