My post cut off my final bit-which was to say thank you for putting up this post. It isn't self indulgent-it is how you feel and that is a fair call. But while how you feel is okay-in term's of legitimate always- feelings do not always represent reality well. So you feel this way which is genuine but your feelings are not necessarily an accurate representation of where you really are at present.

How you describe your life is pretty accurate of many of us when we are in an achievement cycle. However, as others has so rightly mentioned, you can do some really small things to make things a little better for the weekends or the occasional evening. Join a uni committee or club, take a physical class or hobby class -really helps with social contact- and organise to catch up occasionally with those two or three people who are your friends. Busy people with families often love doing coffee or lunch or catching up over a cup of tea-even if they don't have time for more and even this form of contact can really help.
Good luck Matt-don't be so hard on yourself- you have many years ahead of you and there will be good times as well.

Oh I totally know how you feel!! I felt like this for a big part at the start of my PhD, but it faded and I got settled into a new way of things and I'm feeling a lot better about things now. I'll not go into a long post here as I think everything has been covered already. I just wanted to say don't negate your feelings or try to forget about them, just accept them for what they are. It's understandable to feel unsettled about how your life is especially in a PhD as you have no idea of how thing will pan out at the end of it. It could take longer then expected to submit, you could be left without a job at the end, you might have no long term prospects, all true. Also, you might enjoy it, get caught up in part of the project that leads to new ideas, meeting new people, new collaborators, new jobs, deciding you don't want to be in academia and starting on a different career path and might meet someone. You can totally have a life and a relationship doing a PhD, it may mean you have to devote some time to something other than work, but that's ok you know! You have no idea where life will take you, so the best thing you can do about it now is to just sit back and enjoy the ride. Go out to the postgrad things, join a club, or take an evening class, or a gym class, meet new people. It's terrifying at the start but it's doable, and you will be glad you did. I forced myself to get more involved in a club I was already kind of part of, and ended up living with a girl who has become one of my most trusted and treasured friends. I was so down a while after I started my PhD, felt like everyone was moving on and growing up and I was the eternal student, but it's not like that really. I have loads of friends now who are getting married and I know myself and my partner can't even think about those things for the next 2 years or so, but it's ok (it's frustrating, but it's ok) because I know things will happen eventually. And things will fall into place for you, just have faith in yourself and put yourself out there and you will meet people, and who knows, you might enjoy it :)

Plus, you will always have PGF to fall back on :) (up)

Hi, I'm glad you shared this, as I think a lot of people feel the same way. What I wanted to add is that there is no 'best' order to do things like buying a house or going to uni or starting a career in. In my case (I'm in my forties), I got married young and had 2 fairly ordinary careers to make some money to help feed and educate our kids, and studied part-time for my undergraduate degree, before I finally got around to starting the PhD which I always hoped I would do. Try not to compare yourself with other people too much (we all do, I know) - they're probably not as happy/successful as we think they are anyway. What's really important is to keep setting your own goals and planning how to make them happen, whether social, investment or career; that's what makes life so exciting and ultimately rewarding. All the best.

Hey Matt, I think I kinda get how you feel. I too lost about 4-5 years of my life or any sort of progress due to bipolar disorder (I spent a lot fo that time in hospital), and in that time my peers were finishing their degrees, finding and marrying blokes, getting mortgages and all that. I will be 30 when I finish my PhD and will be a long way behind them. I too find that a lot of my old pals are coupled up and go on holiday with other couples, and so on, so we don't have the same connection as we had before. But your life will move on too. Sometimes you have to give it a shunt in the right direction. I joined an online dating site a few months ago (basically to cheer my friend up cos she needed a laugh!) and I've found a lovely boyfriend, and even though we've only been together for a couple of months we're making plans for the future. That came out of nowhere- I honestly thought I had left it too late to find the right guy. I have made a new gang of friends who I have more in common with, although I still keep in touch with my old (married & mortgaged ones!), and now have a really active social life. I can honestly say I've never been happier. But sometimes you do have to make a few steps of your own to make the changes, whatever they might be! Good luck with it all! KB

In addition to everything else that's been said, I can recommend going to the gym from personal experience. It's done wonders for my mood, my self confidence, and my general wellbeing. If there's one near you then try and overcome your internal objections (pretty much every time I go I'm battling lethargy/anxiety/self consciousness about it until I'm there), join up, and go at least 3 times a week.

And go to the counselling service, you need to talk about things to someone just to offload a bit if nothing else.

I'm happy for you keenbean! I suggested an online dating site earlier in this thread. I've heard so many success stories about them recently! They have had such a bad rep in the past, but I would really encourage anyone who is in the right place for seeking a partner and struggling to meet new people to try it. (Not for me though - already married.) Even if it doesn't lead to true love, it will certainly provide some intrigue and excitement. :-x

Hi there,

I used to feel exactly the same - like life moved forwards for everyone else around me whilst I am still stuck in the same position. It's almost like everyone has boarded the plane to this exciting destination but I am stuck in the departure lounge with one milestone to pass after another before I get on. HOWEVER the way I get myself out of these funky moods is by analysing the situation more carefully. I COULD be married with house and kids if I really wanted to be but I didn't choose to go for this right now. Instead I decided that I wanted to give up doing jobs that didn't interest me and paid peanuts so that I could do a job that allowed me to earn decent money whilst doing something that I loved. Once I had decided this, I looked up the training route for this career and made a bargain with myself - I would sacrifice partners/jobs for the 6 years or so it would take to get qualified which in turn would hopefully buy me a working career of many years that I would actually enjoy. I am 30 and literally about the only person in my group of friends that isn't married and is still renting and yes on many occasions I have thought about how unfair it all is. This is when I have to remember that it was my choice to do this. A lot of them have stayed in jobs that they got as new graduates and have progressed up the promotion scales however few of them enjoy what they do and say that the job is stable and allowed them to buy a house and go on holidays but it's not something they love. A lot of them say they have to stay with what they are doing because they don't know what else to do and what with all their commitments they are not free to retrain like I am. So in a way I feel grateful and lucky that I chose to get out of the rut before I got landed with kids and mortgages otherwise I would be looking at a lifetime of low end admin jobs that pay enough for me to live hand to mouth.

I just look on the phd as a wonderful opportunity to concentrate on something that I love and feel passionate about and hopefully later on will provide me with the means to buy my own property and you never know I might actually meet someone along the way.

I know it's difficult but at the end of the day we chose to do phds, we weren't forced to, and hopefully with luck and determination, that choice will pay off for us in the long run. ;-)

Hi 4matt. Firstly I would like to say thank you for writing such an honest post. I am sure you can see from the number of replies that many of us have empathy for how you are feeling, as we have experienced it too. I'm 27 and just starting my PhD and so I will be 30/31 by the time I finish mine too. I started my undergraduate degree at age 18 and finished at 21 and after that I lost my way. I was distracted from my career ambitions because of a negative and self-esteem damaging relationship and after that relationship ended I partied too much to distract myself, all the while working in low paid telesales positions which made me miserable.

By the time I was 25 I was feeling pretty depressed about the years I had wasted and was thinking I really needed to get back to uni and carry on with Psychology, as I had got a First in my undergraduate degree and also had my dissertation published in a prestigious journal. Psychology had always been my passion and something I was good at! Luckily I had stayed in touch with my supervisor from my undergraduate dissertation and he felt that I was wasting my potential in the jobs I was doing and he kindly put me in touch with my current supervisor. Now I'm on a fully funded 1+3 PhD (just finished the MSc part) and I finally feel, at age 27, that my life is back on track.

Admittedly, I'm not in a relationship and I am certainly in no financial position to buy a house, but going back to uni has made me so much happier. I doubt that staying in that awful telesales job would ever have given me the confidence to find a good relationship or the money to buy a house. I feel lucky that I'm back on track now, even if it is a few years later than would have been ideal. That's the way life is! Sometimes other life experiences get in the way and we go off course. I guess the important thing is to look at where you are now and what you have learned along the way. I know depression can be a terrible and lonely experience and if you have managed to fight that and come back stronger you should be proud of yourself. Just remind yourself of how far you've come! :)

Also - some people go back to uni at much older age than we are (my mum included - she went back and did an MSc in Social Work aged 43). I think you should try and fight this idea of 30 being 'old' - I know this is what the media would have us to believe but if you plan to live to old age then 30 really is still young!! :) I even still go clubbing every saturday :) There is no rule to say that everyone has to be married and settled down by 30. To be honest I think some of the most interesting and strong people I know have not conformed to that ideal. Imagine how boring and dull the world would be if everyone followed the exact same life path?

I think you should try and make effort to socialise in some way every day, even if it is just a quick coffee with a fellow student or a glass of wine in the evening with a friend. By being out there in the world you will see that other people are struggling with their lives too, nobody is perfect. Being around others should lift your spirits too.

Good luck. Keep your chin up :)

Minnie xx

Wow, so many replies, so much to say...

I was thinking about it more today, and I think that part of the problem is my target.  I always saw myself as progressing from uni to PhD to academia, but there are two problems with this. First, my field is biomedical/toxicology, and I always get the feeling that basic scientists are seen as poor relations to medics, whatever their qualifications.  Second, the idea of having to work on temporary contracts for not much monetary reward isn't that appealing. On the other hand, I want to make a difference, and so working for a drug company doesn't totally appeal.  On the other hand, I'm maybe not as wedded to science as I was, and am more concerned with doing something intellectually stimulating and worthwhile.

Perhaps I'm also not able to get used to being mediocre. At school I was in teams (ok, chess and quiz, but still), top of the class, etc etc, but now I don't feel intelligent at all, and winning a pub quiz is pretty much the height of my achievements nowadays.  Perhaps I'm also missing the aspect of being young and being able to do whatever you want, within reason, rather than now feeling like I'm stuck in one minute niche with no application to the real world.

As for the loneliness - I've never really had a proper, conventional relationship. The only sustained period I've been seeing someone was a situation where I was in England and she was in Berlin, and latterly in New York.  Othre than that, I've been in a perpetual state of being single. I've had plenty of female friends in the past, but never any who were interested in more.  This is something I'd very much like, but I don't know how easy it is to find someone who would understand the nature of the PhD, and why I may have unpredicted exits from the lab at 8pm, even taking into account my past levels of interest from females!

Social life. As I said, if I got out of work at 5pm regularly, I could do something.  But some nights it's 6, 6.30, or 7, and so it's very difficult to have any plans for anything. I've enrolled for a part time Swedish course, and I'll see how it goes.  When I was an undergrad, I worked for a student counselling kind of thing, spent most of my free time doing it, and made lots of friends there. I'm just not sure anything like that is doable with a PhD.

Finally, some of you suggested counsellors.  This is a good idea, although the counselling service is far enough away from my labs that I'd have to take an afternoon off, and I'm not sure if that's feasible. Also, I've seen counsellors before, mainly for my whole first year of undergrad (good, but temporary relief), psychotherapists (good, but the NHS limits you to 20 sessions and then tells you to sling your hook), psychiatrists (4 of whom passed me around with different diagnoses, concluding that they had nothing to offer me), and so on.  Gets a bit annoying after a while...

4matt. Great to hear you are learning Swedish!

May I recommend www.svt.se for webstreamed swedish television shows (you can watch whole shows). I like watching the nature show " Mitt i naturen" online.

This is a great dictionary too: http://lexin.nada.kth.se/sve-eng.html

Also listening to music will help, you should check out the band Kent, many of their songs are in Swedish too.

I forgot to add that, perhaps when I feel like this, I look at the past and wonder if things might have been different - I dropped out of Oxford as an undergrad, and dropped out of two PhDs at different universities (very early on), lal due to crippling anxiety and low self-confidence. It feels like I have the phrase "What if" tattooed on my brain.

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My husband suffers with anxiety. Well, not so much now. More often than not it's not much of an issue, but it's always there threatening his happiness. He was crippled with it at one point though. He found psychotherapy very helpful too, but it didn't fix the problem. He also had other types of therapy and medication but none of that made any difference. Ultimately, it improved with time and age (he's 33 now).

Does your lack of past relationships have anything to do with your anxiety? I know there's no shortage of ways in which a person can be affected by anxiety, but my husband really struggled in this area (until he met me of course ;-) ). Well, actually it was a massive issue for the first couple of years of our relationship; we almost didn't make it. Took a lot of perseverance on both our parts. In fact, he needs a lot of perseverance to succeed in many, many things that others wouldn't struggle with.

P.S. I, for one, am envious of your pub quiz skills - I suck to an embarrassing extent :$
P.P.S. You don't seem mediocre to me! (And not just because of the pub quiz thing.) Not many people would describe themselves as generally mediocre. Work on that :-)

4Matt, I know many of us feel that life is passing us by, especially with younger friends and siblings apparently so much further along than us. But the truth is we may well have another 70+ years in us! We're coached in this society to think that we're failures if we don't have the house, car, career and spouse (like some bloody Ikea starter pack for adult life), but who says that's true? How many people do you know in miserable marriages, crippled by their mortgage and dreaming of doing a job they actually like?

I think you should be incredibly proud of yourself, getting back up after illness knocked you out of an undergrad and 2 phds takes an amazing amount of guts, I can't imagine there are many people out there who could have done this. I had some delays due to mental health too, I've watched friends graduate while I tried to remember how to live outside a hospital, and questioned again and again whether I have the resilience for the work or study I'm interested in. But I must admit, it's also given me a sense of perspective. I know what really matters to me, and while societal pressure may hound me towards earning more and impressing people, I'm very aware that it won't make me happy.

Do you know what does make you truly happy? Perhaps identify a few key things and focus on them for a bit. If it's a relationship, join a dating site (don't laugh, I met my hubby on one!). If it's a sense of meaning, maybe consider something spiritual or voluntary work. Give the time to what matters to you, not what others see as impressive. As for how old you are when you finish, the real question is, can you enjoy the present? If you feel that everything you do in the next three years is merely a state of limbo endured for the end result, then those three years will always feel like crap (and the end result may struggle to live up to that sacrifice). As they say "life is what happens when you're busy making other plans" - don't spend so long thinking about post-phd that you miss your life in the mean time.

Or to put it more eloquently, courtesy of Kipling:

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

Hi Matt,

My advice, if you want it: spend some time thinking about what you're doing and where you're going. And I don't just mean in your studies. You say you go home in the evening, cook your dinner, watch TV and go to bed. I can relate to that - I did the same for a long time. It's difficult to get out of that kind of a rut. For me, the break came by joining a sports club in uni. Don't join a soccer team, join a club where there are women too. Like a dance club, or martial arts (depends what kind it is if you'll find women there - worked for me, though) or similar. Sports clubs are great for socializing + you'll get yourself into shape and it'll stave off the depression. Also, let's face it, if you're fit, you look good - if you're not, you don't. People like people who look good.

And also, you know, don't just think about these things a little bit now and then. Think about them real hard - actually set time aside to do it. Write down your findings, structure your thoughts. It's all too easy to just sit there with a cup of coffee, aiming to think about this stuff, and just somehow end up thinking about how sorry you are for yourself, or ending up with unrealistic ideas on how to solve your problem. Don't end up in that trap - treat it as a real problem in need of a realistic solution.

Then make a plan and make it happen. Set up goals, set up deadlines and follow up regularly on your progress:
+ friends -> join club(s)
+ girlfriend -> join club(s), talk to girls, some are bound to like you
+ depression -> do sports. Socialize more.
+ house -> do you want the PhD or the house? Be realistic, you can't have both right now.
+ PhD -> do you want it. If not, then do something else. If yes, then you're on your way.
+ ...

You can do anything if you want. Heck, you're even doing a PhD right now, for crying out loud. Now just apply those skills and make them work for you also when it comes to designing your own happiness. In the end, that's what will matter.