======= Date Modified 28 Oct 2011 16:22:05 =======

Understood, however, it's amazing how far organisations will stick their heads in the sand to avoid tackling the blatently obvious.

The second post-doc supervisor I mentioned had had a massive blow up with a member of secretarial staff. It went to industrial tribunal and the woman concerned found herself having to drop the case as it ended up her word against his. It still got in the papers and the gentleman concerned was very concerned the publicity was going to put me off taking the job. It nearly did. I wish I had turned it down, the year that followed.

That said she was portrayed very much as the loser, so whilst there was some egg on the face of the gentleman concerned it was result achieved for the University.

People said things to each other about him, however, melted away when push came to shove.

Follow pjlu's advice but make clear you objective is not to make a complaint, only to be able to get on with your PhD. The tack you should possibly use is whilst you recognise he's an expert in his field, he's just someone you don't feel you can work with (i.e. diplomatic language).

======= Date Modified 21 Nov 2011 03:35:55 =======
HI,

After trying all the solutions that I can think of, I still failed to negotatiate with my supervisor.
To summarize up, here's what happened for the past few weeks/month:

1. My supervisor refused to see me even when the Dean asked him to do it. He still refused.
2. The school can't take any action against him bcause they said I'm the 1st one to complaint and this kind of thing never happened before.
3.They gave me 2 options : 1) change supervisor but you need to start over again and end-up with Msc. only (and all your hard work for 2 yrs not counted) 2) continue at another university


what do you guys think? if I choose no. 2, what should I wrote in the withdrawal letter? They're trying to make me wrote something I withdraw bcause of the stress and not well. I've met 2 potential supervisor in another university. One of them know my supervisor. Should I be honest with them?

======= Date Modified 21 Nov 2011 09:33:29 =======

Hmm, you've rocked the boat so they want rid of you.  If you can continue at another University, do so as I think the damage is done at you're current Uni.  Universities close ranks and don't like dirty laundry on their turf, as you're discovering and they're trying to make the problem disappear.

However, you've a second problem now in that one of your potential supervisors knows your original supervisor.  It looks like you'll have to be honest as your new supervisor may approach him for a reference. 

That may in itself cause a few problems and I don't think there's an easy answer.  You'll just have to hope that the new supervisor is understanding of the situation and you can produce a couple of good references from pre-PhD to counteract any poor reference your old supervisor gives.

Staying at your current Uni. and accepting only a Masters is allowing them to wash their hands of the situation, seemingly punishing you for having the audacity to stand up to them over poor supervision.  I know I said tread lightly in my earlier post, however, the time for that has passed. 

So firstly try to transfer to the new Uni., and if successful knuckle down and finish your PhD.  Once you've successfully completed it (fingers crossed), then complain firstly to your original Uni. over this man's behaviour then to the University Ombudsman.

But make sure you've everything wrapped up first, as the new Uni. (and supervisors - especially the one who knows your old supervisor) will probably not want a continuing dispute from your old Uni. rumbling on whilst you're on their books.  Wait until after before you act. If asked by you're new Uni., just say for the time being you're putting the whole thing behind you.

From my second post-doc and my relationship with my supervisor then, I can relate to your problem only too well.  A few years later and my career path is still damaged because of it.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Maybe I didn't explained it clearly, even if I move to another university, I still need to start from very begining (i.e doing Master), my supervisor didn't allowed me to use the data and project and bring it to another place. So now, either way, I need to start over. Since in my current university, the new sem are approaching, I need to write a withdrawal letter if not, I need to pay the fees. The only good side is, my Dean are willing to be a referee for me.

That is absolutely not good enough! There must be something you can do? He cannot be allowed to get away with this!!! Is there not someone higher you can complain to? Who is the chancellor (sorry if spelling is bad, I'm chapter writing and my brain is dying) of your university? Do not give up and start again because of this bully! Keep kicking up a fuss! Take it higher and higher until you get satisfaction. You can't let him get away with it because he'll just do it again. Go back to the Dean and tell him you're not prepared to quit and start again, is it fair that you've worked hard for 2 years for nothing?!

I've just been reading about someone who took legal action against their university after their supervision broke down. It might also be worth going to the Citizen's Advice Bureau and seeing if they can advise you or get you a solicitor.

======= Date Modified 22 Nov 2011 11:22:02 =======

Bl**dy hell!!! He / they really do sound as if they want rid of you. When I read your message, I thought you meant you could continue with your PhD (with data) as long as you moved Uni. If that had been the case, then that might have been the way to go.

If you would have to start from scratch regardless (without data), you really do have nothing to lose and I now suggest you take Lindalau's advice and put up a fight. Go back to the Dean first and say that the offer of an M.Sc or starting from scratch is not good enough. Then move up the chain and take your complaint higher with the possibility of going to the University Ombudsman (if you're in the UK) and also taking legal action. Such a threat may be enough to make your University to have a rethink.

The UK University Ombudsman website is here:

http://www.oiahe.org.uk/default.aspx

There's also the student union (or equivalent university student welfare group outside the UK) and they will be able to point you in the right direction to take your fight further. They will be well aware of 'problem' staff that students have repeated problems with.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Agreed, Ian (Mackem_Beefy) has given some great advice here. I never knew there was a University Ombudsman. This is great ammunition to go to the Dean with as they will not want Ombudsman interference - it will make them look bad. You can't let them get away with it. Think of others who might have to put up with this guy in future as well as yourself. PhDs are extremely hard work and the last thing any potential PhD needs to put up with is someone like this guy who sounds like he has many issues not related to you personally, so why should you suffer?

Please let us know how you get on, I can't believe the lack of support you've had from your University, it's shocking!

======= Date Modified 22 Nov 2011 14:48:15 =======

To be honest, I even met our university counselor to ask advice on this matter. Do you know what he said?? You can't complaint, or try to change supervisor. He even ask me to meet psychologist to check my stress level/state of mind and he said I should be patience with my supervisor more (i.e just admit it's all my fault ---> I've tried it but still failed!).

Thank you for the suggestion/advice that you guys give me. I don't know this makes it worse or not, my university is not in Europe. It's in Asia. To be frank our education level/system doesn't have that kind of community that will protect postgraduate students. Sadly in my university, they only will consider complaints from foreigner students compare to the local students (because foreigners pay their fees much more than us). They only will hear you thru if you bring this matter to the newspaper, take it legal or bring your parents along and lodge a complaint. This few weeks I felt been treated like a "ball" passing to there and there.

The Dean ask me to meet another lecturer, ask them if they would take me and I need to start from scratch. Then he asked me to meet my lecturer again, he (the Dean) asked me to beg for his mercy and forgiveness. I've done all of this, in the end --> no solution. Even I've received a call from my supervisor, threaten me either finding new supervisor or left university.


My solution at the moment, I need to have a plan B. I've got nothing to lose anymore. I've tried to apply to a new university. Like I've said one of the potential supervisor know my supervisor. I've also discussed with my Dean, if they want me to left the university at least they should provide me at least with a referal letter and state the problem I'm leaving is not lies in me because I know they doesn't want their reputation become bad and I don't want they tarnished my reputation. I've manage to help my previous supervisor publish some papers and even guide his co-supervison and final year students. I really hope I can make through this 'nightmare'.

To Linda, why my university doesn't want to make a big deal of it? It's beacause of ranking. They afraid it will affect their status as research university in my country as well as their world ranking as a good institution.

PS: My senior said to me don't tell anyone if I've met her.This is because my supervisor already give strict warning to those people who back-up me or contacting me. He even threaten to expel the students that tried to give information to administration.

Now I need some ideas what should I wrote in my referal letter, the Dean are willing to sign it. I think most of the potential supervisor will asked me why did I quit in my university (my university is one of the top research universities in my country). Any suggestion? Should I said because of lack of supervisor that expertise in the field that I'm interested in??


PS: This is just referal letter, I'm not quitting yet. After I have a secured study spot then I will make withdrawal letter. I've manage to published 3 journals that have ISI index. Should I mention this or not? I'm afraid they will tried to refer back to my lecturer since his name also on that paper.

======= Date Modified 23 Nov 2011 06:56:54 =======

Just get back from legal office in my university, got some info they're now establishing ombudsman in the university. The person that incharge on ombudsman is not in. Question : Can I trust them 100%?? Since they're still under university and could I tell them everything?? Including my supervisor used to lock students inside a room?? They might want to know why I'm so scared meeting him.

======= Date Modified 23 Nov 2011 09:26:04 =======
It sounds like you're really up against it! It's pure corruption really by the sounds of it. You mention having nothing to lose. If this is the case then, if all else fails , why not look at getting the media involved (assuming there is a relatively free press in your country)? I think the trouble for me is that I can think of lots of things I'd do here in the UK or in a EU country but I have no idea if these things apply where you are. I wish you all the luck in the world, keep us posted.

EDIT As for the uni ombudsman, I don't know if you can trust them or not, it's a judgement call on your part, but if you don't tell them exactly what happened then will they take it as seriously anyway. Unfortunately it's hard to give advice on this sort of thing without being there!