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Industry Job help/general entry-level job help etc

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Quote From AOE26:

Interesting post. You say candidates must have all of the essential skills you have listed.
Hypothetically what would you do if you couldn't find someone with all of those skills?
How long would you wait before hiring someone who was missing one of the essential skills?


I would list 3 essential skills. Without those you cannot do the role(s) I have. If after 6 months no one had those skills I would have to re-evaluate the role I have available - is the compensation the blocker? Does the combination I require compliment each other? Is it a location issue? Remember these are essential - I do not use the word lightly! I am happy to be flexible/train the next 15 skills!

What I usually find is that the role I have is fairly industry standard but people kid themselves they have the skills. They have the buzzword on their cv, know roughly what it means but when you push them for their experience they have none.

Not wanting to sound ancient but in my time I have employed 40-50 people I'd guess. It's not a particularly enjoyable process, agents are woefully unskilled - I may as well vet all the cv's myself. Candidates seem unable to write 2-3 pages of a cv without a plethora of errors - I am not joking when I say I have seen probably 20 cv's that have a personal summary at the beginning about being a great communicator only for that statement to be grammatically wrong! People not turning up for interviews.. or clearly lying.. or unable to look smart for an hour.

Remember you may be nervous as the candidate but what the interviewer wants is to walk into the room and meet someone they like, matches their cv and is trustworthy.


I used to recruit software engineers in my previous career. I started up a recruitment business during that time as well and used to the candidates myself before sending their CV to the client. That worked because I was an experienced software engineer myself.
That worked out quite well but I didn't enjoy trying to find suitable candidates and packed it in. Your experience mirrors mine in terms of the quality of CV. In general they were dreadful. It was very common for clients to ask for 10 essential skills. They would specify ESSENTIAL skills on one job spec as follows: 5-10 years experience of C, C++, Java, Linux, Perl, PHP, HTML, CSS, a few specific microprocessors, several specific embedded operating systems. That was just the essentials. All for a salary of £25k to £50k. Some clients even specify the type of University you must have graduated from AND they wanted only those who scored all top grades at school even if you had a PhD. Honestly it was a nightmare. In my book, if you have more than 2 to 3 essential skills then you are not thinking properly about the person you want to hire so I like the fact you only look for 3.

H

I'm pretty sure I can tell when the advert for a technical post has been written by someone with technical knowledge and when it's written by a generalist/HR/manager person. Listing a ridiculous number of skills and/or buzzwords suggests the author doesn't really know what the job involves. Or that the job is so fuzzy that they can't pin down what is needed - never a good sign!

I think there's probably a lot of reading between the lines that can help. For example compare:
1. "Essential skill: Experienced R user (3+ years)"
2. "Essential skill: Experience of using R/SAS"

In the first case I'd rule myself out as I don't use R and even if willing to learn would be unable to get to the required level on the job in a fast enough time frame. But in the second case, even though I don't use R OR SAS, I'd consider myself eligible as I use Stata which is roughly equivalent, and the lack of detail about level of competence means I could probably persuade them to let me use Stata, or train me up in R/SAS. I would emphasise that equivalence and willingness to learn in the personal statement.

Does that interpretation sound reasonable to people with recruitment experience?

[BTW I thought in the UK it was no longer possible to specify years of experience as it is a form of age discrimination against the young. Rather, I thought the idea was that you were supposed to specify competencies instead].

A

I would say both examples you need to have used said product. People add years as it gives them reassurance the person will have gained more knowledge.. what can happen is person A has used the product for 5 years - but only sparingly person B has used it for 2 years constantly and has far better knowledge but 5 > 2 in an employers mind.

The time when a transferable skill/knowledge is ok (for me at least) is when it's a preferred/bonus skill. I always think when an advert has a ton of skills required it's best to steer clear.. it might as well say "dogs body" or grand titles i.e head of x or x manager and you manage 1 person and must be hands on. In effect you are the dogs body who also has to put up with complaints!

Plus I have found the more senior I get the less quantifiable my role is!! I joke that I am 50% counsellor 50% sales person. I calm people down and then try and convince them to do other things :)

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Quote From HazyJane:
I'm pretty sure I can tell when the advert for a technical post has been written by someone with technical knowledge and when it's written by a generalist/HR/manager person. Listing a ridiculous number of skills and/or buzzwords suggests the author doesn't really know what the job involves. Or that the job is so fuzzy that they can't pin down what is needed - never a good sign!

I think there's probably a lot of reading between the lines that can help. For example compare:
1. "Essential skill: Experienced R user (3+ years)"
2. "Essential skill: Experience of using R/SAS"

In the first case I'd rule myself out as I don't use R and even if willing to learn would be unable to get to the required level on the job in a fast enough time frame. But in the second case, even though I don't use R OR SAS, I'd consider myself eligible as I use Stata which is roughly equivalent, and the lack of detail about level of competence means I could probably persuade them to let me use Stata, or train me up in R/SAS. I would emphasise that equivalence and willingness to learn in the personal statement.

Does that interpretation sound reasonable to people with recruitment experience?

[BTW I thought in the UK it was no longer possible to specify years of experience as it is a form of age discrimination against the young. Rather, I thought the idea was that you were supposed to specify competencies instead].


I wouldnt have thought it would be illegal to specify a number of years of experience. What you cant say is "must be over 30 years of age and under 45".
Mind you, academia is able to get away with using phrases like "young scientists" in job adverts which sends a lovely message to older PhD students.

A

Hi,

It must be stressful to not be able to find a job. Sometimes the main problem lies in the lack of trasferrable skills. Even though your subject knowledge can be proven by having graduated from top universities there are certain skills that employers are always looking for. I'm currently working for an online tutoring start-up which offers its tutors a programme called DevelopMe. It's designed to boost your employability skills and help with securing a job in your field. It might be a good opportunity for you to gain some valuable experience through completing free trainings which will develop your leadership, communication and coaching skills (out of many others) whilst earning money.
If you are interested and would like to hear more about it pm me and I will give you more details

S

Wow, I didn't quite expect this response.

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