The username you chose sounds a pretty sad statement Hatelife. May I ask you why? Sometimes talking with other people helps to see things in a different way.

I've had an extensive array of sh*te jobs during my student years. The worst was a family run chip shop/restaurant where I used to get yelled at by the boss's 14 year old daughter; I lasted 2 weeks in that place. As "menial" jobs go, I have found the best to be in friendly suburban pubs (not chain pubs or city centre pubs) where you get treated with some respect by customers. But like you, I found it very hard to get anything better: most employers, even those offering the crappest of crap jobs, seem to expect a promise of lifelong devotion from you.

The job is getting worse, and doesnt change even if you do the earlier shift. Its so repetitive, and mindless, and customers seem to lack even basic courtesy or respect if you are a waiter. I am not just whining, but I honestly oscilate from being invisible, or being an object of contempt. If it was a temporary "student job" with an end I would try to hack it out, but I can horribly imagine myself doing this indefinitely.

I keep sending off applications and speculative letters, but was told (confidentially) that my supervisor's name as my main reference is almost poisonous. I can't really escape this, as people are bound to ask.

Its almost farcical. Seven years of university education and a doctorate. Why the hell did I bother?

I emailed the guy about the essay writing service, because I really need the money, and will see what he writes back. Hell, if the let me, at least I will be paid for doing what I was originally trained for (i.e. conducting researching and writing up), even if its for rich lazy students rather than academic journals.

How can any of us respect a system that treats its neophytes in this manner? Isn't there something fundamentally wrong about this? What's going to happen in the future? Ex PhD students having to be prostitutes?

How about leaving the academic environment behind altogether. You've earned a doctorate, something to be very proud of. Nobody can take it away from you. You will be Dr BadHaircut all your life (and at least get the extra treatment at airports and hotels in a number of countries, such as Austria, where many people are obsessed with titles). So that's one thing. I assume you are still relatively young and as you did a PhD, I reckon you are able to learn quick. Why not add a little PostGraddiploma or certificate and try to apply outside the academic prison?

Yeah, this is looking very attractive, but what can I do that

a) doesnt require any money to do (as I am broke otherwise would not be doing my current job)
b) will give me at least some happiness.

I would like to apply for something outside academia, but from the temping agencies, people I have approached, the letters PhD seem to be like having a leper's bell attatched to you (at least in Britain). Unfortunately, cannot speak any other language otherwise would move.

You bothered because you are clever and you have skills and talents that others don't have. I undestand that you are angry now and think that you wasted your time, but you should be very proud of what you have achieved instead. Do you think that you would have had a better choice without your doctorate? I don't think so. You can do the essay- writing job if you think that this is something that grants you an income short-term. However, I think that you should mention that you have done a PhD and highlight why this can be attractive to potential employers. If you hide your best assets you cannot expect people to offer you your dream job.

I know we think we're better because we have worked hard for a PhD and possibly many high quality journal papers, but in the world of commerce, a PhD means nought. With a PhD and no experience, we are effectively on the same level as a BSc graduate, but maybe worse as we're 3 years older/behind.

Unless you want to be an RA or lecturer, in industry you are competing with BScs. Maybe after 5-7 years experience you will earn promotion above a BSc but that's not guaranteed either. I have met crap Drs and brilliant BScs in industry.

Just choose your field you are best suited to, and go after graduate jobs. Your PhD's in psych? What do most grads do with this subject?

Good Luck.

UFO, I completely agree. However, I think it's not as negative as it sounds. Yes, it might be necessary to go for graduate jobs. On the other hand, people with PhDs are often only 3 or 4 years older, because many people do Masters after BSc anyway, and in comparison with other countries within the European Union, UK graduates are extremely young. Therefore, you may compete for a graduate job when you are 27 and most other applicants will be 22/23. But then, once you got the job, it will be much easier for you to catch up and to learn quickly and to gain status/respect/higher salaries., so you definitely WILL overtake 'normal' BSc graduates.

The only problem is: you got to apply quickly in the real world as you will definitely miss that train if you 'waste' a couple of years as PostDoc etc. (this, of course, is only the case if you want to leave the academic environment, otherwise PostDocs are not a waste of time).

Summary: Apply for graduate jobs, feel a bit akward in the first two years, but then it will all fall into place. Good luck

Re: agencies. I ended up taking PhD off my CV and "dumbing down" all my work experience in order to land a job as a secretary which almost pays the rent. Essay mills devalue the honest work which all of us are doing.

There seems to be a lot of negativity about phd prospects but so many of the top jobs down the line require phds. Im sure the doom and gloom will all be forgotten in years to come. Just keep flipping those burgers in the meantime

BadHaircut - you've described the average circumstances that most waiters and waitresses put up with every night on the job. I have not met many people in the same hospitality field who have more positive things to say than negative. But we've all got to do what we gotta do to survive when things are tough, it's not always smooth sailing for everyone. Believe me I can understand the situation you're finding yourself in right now, I can definitely empathise with the absolute frustration you're expressing. The only thing I can say to this is to stay positive and to look at it as paying your dues (no matter how long you've been paying it prior to completing your PhD!) until your ship comes in. Out of interest though, did you do a bit of research into the job prospects of your chosen field before undertaking a PhD first?

I did some research what PhDs go onto do, but everyone I asked seemed to feed me the "Do a PhD and the world is your oyster" line (The PhD students who were studying at the same uni as I was, as well as the lecturers I spoke to). Obviously they had to believe that line themselves. No one else outside academia, seemed to say much, except "it sounds very impressive".

Its hard to get this information, unless from a place like this, but nothing like that seemed around at the time (1999-2000).

The hospitality industry does indeed suck, and I realise what I have to do is typical. However, most of my compatriots have not spent 7 years in higher education and have the corresponding expectations, so I think I am justified in finding a little harder than them.

As for the essay mills, I am not sure how they devalue the work of others? I would say that I would be cheating the student paying for the work (who fails to learn the research and essay writing skills, because I am doing it for them). Its upto them if they plagiarise/ misrepresent my work as theirs. How does this affect another student's work. Its not like there are a restricted number of 1st/ 2:1 degrees and I am unfairly keeping someone else from achieving this.

The only other person I could be accused of decieving is the student's future potential employer, but screw them. If the same employers can't offer ME a job, why should I care that they may be lumbered with students whose abilities may not be the same as their degree classification may suggest?

I have decided to go for this.