Let me get this straight - Dr title. on PostgraduateForum.com

Mackem_Beefy
11 years ago

Quote From wowzers:
I hope I do well enough to get my PhD and will certainly love being Dr and would love to use the tilte, but I would probably go with PhD instead.

I have found that excellence and academic achievement isn't always condusive to gaining employment in the private sector particularly. I have a teaching and advice and guidance background working in employability. and it is sad that we regularly advised people to 'tailor' their CV and applications to the level of position they were applying too and to omitt some achievements.

This is because you get the "you are over qualified" This is partly due to HR procedure matching skills sets and renumeration They literally can not take you if you are more qualified than the job spec. The other is jellousy and suspicion. Many managers are put out by the arrival of highly qualified 'others' into their department for fear of being supplanted or worry about managing someone with probably a higher academic ability than themselves, they become fearful. Slap me down for my sweeping generalisation but lots of 'older' managers got their positions through experience not qualifications, It's not like that now, you need more and more quals to get in the door meaning some managers who have fewer or no quals are worried about well qualified newcommers :-( A senior manager at my last place openly said she is suspicious of people with firsts!

BTW non of my lectures use Dr :-(

Wowzers, I'm curious.

By omitting some achivements, does this include omitting direct reference to the PhD (i.e. passing it off say as a research assistant post or similar)? This was directly implied to me by the dole when I was out of work a few years ago and I know in Spain this was advice given by the funding bodies out there not so long ago.

In North America, such omission is conversely seen as gross dishonesty.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

W

wowzers
11 years ago

Yes Ian you are right, even younger people out of college are often told not to even put A levels, esp if they just need a job, any job and are going for shelf stackers or cleaners. BTW my previous company ran many Jobcentre Plus contracts, still do in some local areas, so you could well have had that advice from them. I think it's a sad state of affairs not to give your achievements. I don't think it's dishonest to not put a qualification you do have but it's def dishonest to say you have one that you don't.

Mackem_Beefy
11 years ago

Quote From wowzers:
Yes Ian you are right, even younger people out of college are often told not to even put A levels, esp if they just need a job, any job and are going for shelf stackers or cleaners. BTW my previous company ran many Jobcentre Plus contracts, still do in some local areas, so you could well have had that advice from them. I think it's a sad state of affairs not to give your achievements. I don't think it's dishonest to not put a qualification you do have but it's def dishonest to say you have one that you don't.

I'd love to see you argue about this on the LinkedIn group "PhD Careers outside Academia", where the mainly North American / USA posters roasted the opening poster of a thread for even suggesting this.

I participated in the discussion, noting advice being given out in Europe to leave off the PhD in order to assist in the search for a job, any job. However, that was basically ignored with the perception being that leaving out information was as bad as lying. Perhaps there are cultural differences between Europe and North America as regards truth being the whole truth in the latter and lying being anything short of that.

I don't think a PhD should be left off a CV, with instead the CV being tailored to suit the assets a candidate had to suit a position. However, I do understand why an omission might happen if the candidate is economically desperate to find a job and I personally would not hold it against them. I would be interested in what the candidate might offer the company with experience (more so) and qualifications (less so the older the qualifications are) playing their respective parts in that assessment.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

C

charmlessman
11 years ago

Quote From Mackem_Beefy:
Also, using in a real world context is dangerous if someone needs urgent medical treatment. I know of a case where an academic was pulled out of bed to treat an hart attack victim whilst hotel staff was waiting for an ambulance. It didn't go down too well with the hotel and their interpretation was 'Dr.' inferred medical expertise.

I wonder if PhDs should have a compulsory first aid course to cover this potential eventuality. It would only take a couple of days out of their studies. :-)

Finally, the opening poster is correct. You can call youself "Dr. Joe Bloggs" or "Joe Bloggs PhD", but not "Dr Joe Blogs PhD". This latter form infers you're doctor twice, which is a misrepresentation.

If titles have to be used, I prefer the "Joe Blogs PhD" representation, as this clearly differentiates you from a medical doctor ("Joe Bloggs M.D.") thus preventing the mix up the above academic experiences.

The 'safer' qualification after the name representation is fairly standard in North America.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Shouldn't be a problem now as medical doctors tend not to bother treating people off duty for fear of being sued.

Mackem_Beefy
11 years ago

Quote From charmlessman:

Shouldn't be a problem now as medical doctors tend not to bother treating people off duty for fear of being sued.

Fair comment Charmless, but from what I saw flying back from Thailand a few years ago, there are still people willing to put themselves forward. A diabetic fainted on the plane and the call for help led to the poor woman being treat by 5 different UK GPs. So some out there will still take the risk thankfully.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)