so a pregnancy during education is only ok if it is "unplanned"? Hmmm... I think a woman is entitled to get pregnant whenever she feels is the right time and employers or whomever should make entitlements for this. It is only 6 months off, what is that in the grand scheme of things? if the woman decides to stay on for an entire career.

I do agree that a woman is entitled to get pregnant when she wants to but do you not think that it is probably better to prioritise things? If a woman is in a 'proper job' that is all good but a PhD is something different- short term and quite stressful.

I agree, Cryogenics. Of course women (of which I am one, in case anyone is in doubt) are entitled to make their own decisions, but it would be courteous of them to remember that other people exist and are affected by those decisions. With rights come responsibilites.

All I have said (several times now) is that it would be better to wait three years. Just as it is better to wait till you have finished your GCSEs before getting pregnant (not being silly here: where I come from it is not unusual for 16 year olds to become pregnant, but I would advise them too to wait till their exams are over...)

And Ras: you misunderstand. My point re: unplanned pregnancies is that it can happen to anyone (female, anyway) and in that case, the woman and her supervisory team must make the best of it and support her, whatever decision she makes. This is a world away from the dishonesty implied in planning to get pregnant, but not telling your supervisor at inteview.

In the current job market, most jobs are not for life.Most of the women I know who have had children may only have been in a job a few years before they have children. There is such a thing as Equal Opportunities. This applies to students as well who should not be at a disadvantage because they get pregnant. The AHRC and other funding bodies stipulate that women who get pregnant whilst studying are entitled to maternity leave.

Women who get pregnant whilst studying or at work do not create the problem, it is employers and peers who believe that women should fitin with a world that has been constructed to support male work practices. Women do not create a problem, they give birth to children - work practices do not accommodate them well, they more often than not return to badly paid part-time work that does not reflect their skills or education. My supervisor who is a professor and so highly intelligent as well as experienced recommended I have a child at the right time for ME - if you wait for when it suits the WORLD you will be waiting forever and as women we should stick together - because if you think it will caused raised eyebrows now, it should be born in mind that it will later and at every stage in a woman's career.

Did anyone see the programme on Sunday night about the woman who lost her job in the city because she had a baby? It happens and prejudice against working mothers is rife. The idea that a woman is irresponsible if she PLANS and thinks about getting pregnant seems a little strange to me. I think it's irrelevant. Have a baby if you want one, don't if you don't ! One of the first people I met when I started was a mother of 4 doing a PhD with another child on the way and she worked more hours than seemed physically possible - what on earth has she done that's wrong?

No-one is arguing that, Sassy. I'm just saying it's not ideal. Without wanting to offend anyone, I cannot believe that being pregnant whilst doing a PhD is ideal; just as it's not ideal whilst as an undergraduate, or as a schoolchild. My point (for the nth time) is that unplanned pregnancies are unavoidable and women should be supported to make whatever decision they choose. Lying to your supervisor (even by ommison) is avoidable and unfair.

Think I need to repeat this cos I haven't made myself clear. It was suggested earlier in this forum that a student who is planning a pregnancy should not tell her supervisory team, and imply that is was an accident. It's the dishonesty that is wrong. As for planned vs unplanned: I have explained my argument enough times now; beginning to feel like a stuck CD.

I agree with you juno.

Thanks Cryogenics

but why should a woman have to tell her supervisor she is planning a pregnancy at all?

shouldn't a woman be allowed a family life that is independent of her career? Regarding your other point, if she were to get pregnant (planned) during the phd, then you would assume she believed that this was the best time for her, otherwise she (as an intelligent woman) she would have left it til after the phd.

Ras, do you read any posts before replying?
Read my post about research councils and funding.

Also, it's just good manners. You are expected to tell potential supervisors about holidays you have booked, because it will mean arranging work around your time off.

I say it again: you don't live in a vaccuum and your actions affect other people (and yourself: it really, really is not a good idea to be puking up whilst writing a thesis).

But the logic doesn't work for me Juno. Are you implying that if a woman becomes pregnant, they work less effectively? Of course PhDs are subject to completion times, but people get sick and take time off for illness etc. Is it just the dishonesty thing you have a problem with? In which case, say a woman goes for a job should she proffer information to the effect that "I may decide to try for a family within the next three years"? You are also implying that if a candidate applies for a PhD and says she is planning to have a family, she will immediately forfeit the chances of getting one. PhDs are awarded on academic excellence, not reproductive plans.