Well I love science, always have.

I'm not interested in being an academic though even though industry sucks as well.

I know I could go and do something in finance if I wanted lots of money but I'm not interested and nor am I money driven.

I'm pretty much money-driven, but that's not the only reason I want to leave academia. I also don't like the attitude of most people I've met in my department and on conferences nor do I like a lot of other things I see happening every day.

I didn't say scientists see profits, I just said that drug companies make profits, lots of them.

I often get the impression that people on this forum feel they are owed a lot, simply because they decided to do a PhD. Why should you get paid a lot for having done research? First, you are not an expert in any field except your PhD so unles you find a company doing work with exactly the same topic, you're only real distinguishing feature obove that of a graduate is that you've experienced a research environment for a few years. Moreover, there are very few research areas which will actually pose any potential financial benefit to an employer. Can you look at your research and HONESTLY say that you would think someone should pay you a high salary to do it?

For me, NO-ONE said that I would have a PhD then waltz into job. I was told that it was emotionally and academically demanding and would require a lot of devotion and effort. If I was able to meet these demands I would have a PhD and be called "Dr' after 3/4 years. That's what a PhD means, no-one even mentioned that I would be more employable. Maybe a few people have jumped the gun a little with regards to what a PhD actually offers.

They should pay high salaries for the simple fact that someone had the perseverance and dedication to go through the process of three to four years of ordeal, setbacks and difficulties.
If not PhD graduates, who can be more motivated. If I was an employer I would definitely have a look at PhD graduates, even for unrelated areas.

a) they are intelligent

b) they don't give up easily

c) they are crazy enough to sacrifice their live for work

d) they are happy with low salaries and expect to be the scum of the nation

Going back to Sophie on "The Apprentice". what used to annoy me was the way they always applied her title in the captions whenever she spoke.

I'm not saying she shouldn't use it or anything - I use mine after all. It's more a criticism of the programme makers. I can't understand why her title was displayed and others weren't. They were all "John Smith" or whatever - not Mr/Ms. If you're going to give someone their title, why not everyone else? It seemed really odd to me

H - i totally agree with your sentiments. Ann, i see you watched the BB2 grilling . regarding salaries and why am doing my phd:

- why am doing it : to make a difference in the world. i suppose that's why i haven't quit yet.
-salaries : am not planning to be working for people all my life so that doesn't bother me. as long as am able to live and do what i want to do, am happy.

Krokodile: i agree. i think they were mean to her coz of her Dr. Title. The presenters scrutinised her more and attacked her views more. I guess that's what we should expect when we get to our PhDs.

However, i also noticed towards the end that most people she was working with liked her because of her intelligence. I think what they liked was association - more than her.

Her board room contributions were crap - and she should never have spoken unless she had to - she was so stuck in science to relate to minute stuff like quanties of milk and real world stuff like selling.

However, she applied some viva skills in defending herself in the boardroom - that was interesting to see. At least she accepted she was wrong - she wasn't like the other girl - Jadine or the one who couldn admit that she made a mistake yesterday.

If you are money driven, then the only reason to do a PhD is for the challenge and the 'fun'. Really you should prob think about becoming an investment banker or something like that. Long hours, lots of stress and lots of money. After all, once you start earning big money in industry I would guess your life would not be so different (stress, deadlines, paperwork, no lab work etc etc) so you may as well just go for the job out there that pays the most money.

After all, once in managment type roles (big money) I think most jobs out there no matter the field end up being pretty similar.

That's true, Richmond.

Stress levels are pretty much the same, maybe even higher. Yet, in such types of jobs you might earn £100k, so that sounds better, in particular if you want to work hard for a reason.

The reasons I'm doing research and hope to stay in research, when I finish my PhD is because I'm doing something that I enjoy and something that I want to do. Obviously I would like to be well paid, but I would prefer to do something I enjoyed for the next 30-40 years rather than just doing something that I hated because it was well paid - that would give me more fulfillment and make me happier.

Fair enough.

Actually I think you can be really happy that you like your job/research, because most people don't even have a choice. They do something they don't like and then the find a new job and realise after a while that they don't like that either.

Adem, I was replying to this comment:

"Get a grip guys! Sugar was right, drugs etc have huge profit margins including R&D. You just need to look at GSK's profits for last year, can't remember the exact figure, google it, it's in the billions though. I'm not bitching, just being pragmatic, companies make money. Hopefully I'll be working for one in a few years and I too will make money."

You make it sound like you will be getting a decent amount considering the amount of profit such a big pharma will make. Well you should realise that a sales rep for the company will make more money than you even if you are the one that designed the drug or tested it in clinical trials etc. Senior scientists (Phd level) in pharma companies are just lab monkeys trying to get to the next level (gorillas). If you don't have a PhD, you start as a lab rat and usually don't go above lab monkey status.

It was meant to sound exclusive actually. I was meaning to say that these companies make big bucks and as a result they pay better. I find it a little harsh that you would assume that I was so simple to think I'd get a share of profits! That sort of person would be a shareholder receiving a dividend no? I suppose I didn't explain it clearly.