What if she decides to move?

Why was her choosing the PhD "a wrong life choice" when she wanted a job in Academia?

Surely her doing a PhD was the right thing to do if she wanted a job in Academia?

How important is money to you?

Didn't read all the responses but how exactly are your publications out of date? Dated sure, but if they are peer reviewed they should still be racking up citations if they are half decent.

I am in my 2nd year in a top 10 uni (Russel group as well) not saying this to be a smart-ass or elitist, just for context. I sat in on a lectureship interview for 2 posts, 4 candidates. They were so impressed they CREATED a 3rd lectureship just to retain a third candidate.

My observations: One girl was a teaching fellow (part time one year contract) the other two just graduated...in fact one of them had not submitted as yet LOL....BUT she has 3 shiny publications under her belt, the other chick had a publication in CUP (Cambridge University Press).

One girl that did not get the job was actually the other co-author of the 3 publications. Her presentation was shit, she stared at her macbook the whole time, I could not tell you if she had 2 or 3 eyes. So while its not a sure shot, you sure as hell better publish by graduation time or get ready to be a teaching donkey (teaching fellow) who spends their summer vacations writing and trying to publish.

Most of this may be only applicable to social sciences, but if you have any clue what the REF is, you understand your articles are your new academic currency. I even changed my thesis format to thesis by publications (Introduction, 4 journal articles, Discussion).

Being an academic is a business decision and you better be ready, understand the REF, understand why 2020 is important, publish, become good at networking at cocktail parties and conferences, know how to write a decent grant proposal, be a good teacher, a good people's person, and the list goes on. In essence you kinda have to be a rock star these days.

/end rant.

What if you had three or four articles in high ranking journals, had written a book or two, and given many conferences, have a teaching qualification and lots of teaching experience?

How important would the social aspect you speak of be?

I just really hate cocktail parties and sucking up to people (although I have noticed that people less professionally competent but more social often get jobs).

Hi Kathryn,

First, I just wanted you to know that it's okay to feel the way you are feeling. Frustrated, angry, resentful. This is very common for someone who has spent a good chunk of their time on study to find themselves getting nowhere in the Academic sphere, and struggling in landing work in industry.

As others have said, Academia is very much characterised by flexibility, I.E. moving to different parts of the world just to land a position. It's horrible and not conducive to having a family or the likes. However, Academia has historically been a man's world, where families would follow the breadwinner, and despite radical shifts in our social structures, this mentality has continued as Academia becomes more globalised with the rest of the world.

I think what would be helpful for you is sitting yourself down and really figuring out what you want, as others have suggested. I know that it's difficult to be personable in interviews, trust me I'm quite introverted myself, but sometimes we have to be able to put on a good show just to get ourselves through the door. I do think that perhaps a lack of enthusiasm for the role is coming through in your interviews, stemming from a belief that you just need a job and anything will do. Employers aren't looking for that, they want someone who actually wants the job and to be part of the company.

Now my partner works in IT and started in basic help desk, but has since moved on to systems administration and more recently, forensic IT work which is very interesting! He doesn't have a PhD, he doesn't even have a university or college qualification, but he's worked hard, makes more money than I do as an assistant lecturer in academia, and has done well for himself.

I would recommend checking out https://versatilephd.com/ to help you locate your industry more specifically.

I would also recommend, as others have suggested, shifting your mindset.

Kathryn, why not write a book on computing? That would get you a job.

They're all between 5 and 8 years old and not admissible for the REF, which is all that university employers seem to care about. They don't care if you're a good researcher, an experienced teacher, a hard worker... they only care how many publications you have for the REF. Some university job adverts now say you will not be eligible to apply unless you have a minimum of four recent publications. Some adverts even say the post is only open to those who graduated from their PhD within the last two years. This is an obvious attempt to stop those with "out-of-date" PhDs continually applying.

I know I'm introverted and have already tried my best to be polite and friendly, thinking I was doing a good job. But I'm still getting feedback from employers saying I come across as withdrawn and awkward, and I need to smile more and say hello and shake hands. I did this already! Is there a special way of shaking hands that I'm not aware of? Is my smile not genuine enough? I'm already outside of my comfort zone and making a huge effort to act like an extrovert, but apparently it isn't enough and I'm not really sure what more I can do?

I completely agree that my lack of enthusiasm is coming across to employers. Part of this is that I'm not convinced I can do the job. I know a lot about my specific area of IT study and about teaching, but little about repairing computers or programming, which is what the majority of jobs seem to be. I'm not creative and greatly doubt if I could do the visual design part of a web designer's job. I'm not a strong programmer and don't know the languages being used nowadays, and would struggle to learn them. I would hate sitting in an office with other people and having to talk to them. If I attend an interview and they talk about how they have drinks after work and it's an important part of team building, I have a panic attack and feel sick. I don't want to go for drinks and socialise - it's my idea of hell and I just want to do my work and go home. In my mind friendship has no place in the workplace!

I think that anyone that disagrees with this hasn't got all they could have out of their PhD. A PhD is supposed to be a learning experience. It's supposed to change you. If all one has gained is a qualification, then it's been a missed opportunity.

It's not human to think like that at all. It's an option to think like that, but you don't have to. If I end up working for minimum wage for the rest of my life I will still never regret my PhD. Everyone is different. Personally I find it better to think of things as a positive experience than get bitter about them. I would expect that makes for a happier life.

We sometimes do not choose how we feel about certain things. How great would it be if people could just tell themselves to be positive about a certain thing and then it is like that. That's not how it works. She obviously had different expectations for her PhD than you have and I'm pretty sure that many PhD students would regret a PhD in her situation. Not everyone did a PhD just for the PhD's sake, so what's all the fuzz about if she comes to the conclusion that she would have been better off without doing the PhD? I think it is a valid, personal, view on her PhD. This completely depends on your personality and maybe you are just of a more positive nature in general ;) Important is that she now finds a way back on track. No matter if you regret it or not, the situation is like it is and it is definitely not hopeless.

However, I also emphasized that the negative view is influenced by the current situation. I am absolutely sure that if she finds a job and does not have all this pressure she currently has, she will look differently on the PhD and see the brighter sides. Mackem_Beefy basically told the same story.

True, I guess not everyone can choose their perspective on things.

And the list GOES ON AND ON ..

Well, Dear Kathryn15, giving all of these negative thoughts about yourself just in few days of posting your first threads in here, I am convinced that you are most likely a self-pitying software program bot for the next year “Turing Test Machine” competition - or The Loebner Prize in Artificial Intelligence (a competition to generate a communicative computer program where people would not be able to distinguish whether they are communicating with a human or an AI machine). So well done in convincing most of the people that you are not a bot but hey, I gotcha ;) so modify and come again next year ;)…

But giving the benefit of the doubt that you still can be a human, why would anyone (either in industry or academia), would even consider to hire anyone with this much machinistic self pitying thoughts and negative attitude and still pay them a professional salary?

KimWipes, was such an unsupportive, unpleasant post really necessary?

In a real world situation, not everyone would be "supportive" and "pleasant". Sometimes kicking people's buttocks worth more than 5 hours lecturing them :)

I hardly think the choice is only between 'kicking people's buttocks' and '5 hours lecturing them'. Neither are exactly helpful.