Deed poll would be easier if that’s the case. Seriously, as some kind of symbol of your achievement to the outside world? I'm pretty sure the outside world doesn't give a stuff, other than thinking we're all a bit (probably a lot) crackers for bothering.

No, don't get me wrong, it's not something to brag about, it's something to remind you of your achievement. My PhD friends (some of whom have seriously demanding jobs) say they have never done and probably will never do anything as hard as the PhD. When you've done it, that's it, the title is your reward. The thesis itself is just a minor thing, nobody's gonna read it aside from your suprevisor/examiner/mum. And you'll have it in the corner of a shelf, half forgotten. the title will be there, part of your name so to speak.

True words.

Which open up a completely new perspective on this entire (perhaps too lengthy) debate.

I think Shani made a good point a few posts back. Watson and Crick quite famously said that they would not have discovered what they did, if their universitites had been as obsessed with "returns" and commercial relevance as they are nowadays.

"Well, being a Doctor for the rest of your life is worth the pain, I think."

This is by far the weakest reason to do a PhD. You can buy the title of Dr from an online diploma mill. The title Dr doesnt actually mean anything, and if you do think makes you "better" than others, that just reflects an arrogant outlook and your own status craving issues.

As mentioned before in this thread you can get PhDs in medieval farting, so its not necessarily a huge accomplishment beyond any other. The truth is that if you self fund, have an active supervisor and have a carefully selected internal and external examiner, almost anyone can get a PhD.

"This is by far the weakest reason to do a PhD. You can buy the title of Dr from an online diploma mill. The title Dr doesnt actually mean anything, and if you do think makes you "better" than others, that just reflects an arrogant outlook and your own status craving issues."

Well, Badhaircut, your response above is by far the biggest rubbish I've ever heard about a PhD.

First, not everybody can get a PhD, otherwise everybody would have one. Second, diploma-mills PhDs are no PhDs, they are legally not acknowledged as doctorates and your generally not allowed to use the title, hence this is rubbish too.

A PhD is a bloody big achievement and I think that people like you discredit it due to low self confidence.

It doesn't make a difference if the PhD is about medieval farting. The process remains difficult, thus you shouldn't look down on people who did PhDs in less obviously relevant subject areas. it remains extremely difficult to do a PhD.

Plus, the title Dr actually DOES mean a lot and it's a fact that not everybody can get one.

I am so proud of my PhD I added it to my name in my (foreign) passport, I added it to my name at my doorbell in my homecountry and I added it on my business card. And I insist on people using my title everywhere, hotels, office life and so on (whilst simultaneously being fully aware that people in the UK think I'm weird for doing it). But I don't hide it. It's the biggest achievement in my life and I will be happy about achieving it for the rest of my life.

Dr O.Stoll

Now, some users here think I got some personality problems or complex but this is not the case. I just think that you are totally wrong about the whole doctorate thing. You still don't understand that it shouldn't be the outside world exclusively which defines how much it is worth, it's also something you as a person should be proud of in terms of personal development and achievement.

"not everybody can get a PhD, otherwise everybody would have one"

You are assuming everyone wants one. Not everyone does.

Look, I think you are getting my position wrong. I agree the majority of PhD students work damn hard, and have achieved something. My point isn't to do down their hard work. My point is there is no real "quality control" for PhDs, or standardisation, so there is a lot of variation and no real assurance of quality.

FYI, you CAN use diploma mill titles. In fact the word "Doctor" is NOT a protected title at all. This page goes into further detail about the pointlessness of the title that I can't here

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/09/quack-word-3-doctor.html

But in typical O.Stoll style you attack the person, not the argument. The only thing that is rubbish here is your ability to debate.

You're wrong about the diploma mills. Due to new European legislation you can be fined and jailed for using dodgy doctorates. The institution must be accredited by the EU. And if I'm correct, the UK belongs to the European Union, and is thus affected by this legislation.

"And I insist on people using my title everywhere, hotels, office life and so on "

Jesus. Are you even aware how insecure this makes you sound? That you need constant validation from a title that no-one really cares about. From what you are saying, for you its not about the way you live, what you achieve or whose life you touch.

Its all about impressing hotel receptionists and petrol pump attendants into thinking you are clever.

Are you honestly telling me that the greatest achievement in your life is writing a book that about 4 people will read? Not giving birth/ having children? Not saving someones life? Or teaching someone to aspire? Or producing something that will change the world forever (rarely PhD reserach btw). If you think your greatest achievement is already past, what else is there to look forward to?

I will find you the link. But the word Doctor as well as its abbreviation Dr or Dr. is definitely protected. unlike the abbrev. MBA which is unfortunately not protected.

But if you try to apply to any business organisation with a doctorate from Belford Online University or similar, I am sure you won't get very far (apart from legal consequences you are likely to face).

My greatest achievement SO FAR is the doctorate. As it was the most difficult one. I nearly quit a number of times during the PhD.

In the future, of course there might or might not be bigger achievements. I think it is clear that we are not talking about the really important things in life. this is just referring to career as the whole tread is more or less related to career. So please stop bullsh***ing me and implying that I don't know what is really important in life.

In terms of career the PhD is my biggest achievement and I am not trying to impress anybody than myself.

"Jesus. Are you even aware how insecure this makes you sound? That you need constant validation from a title that no-one really cares about. From what you are saying, for you its not about the way you live, what you achieve or whose life you touch"

Insecure are you my friend. If I remember correctly, you feel depressed because of lack of status in society, lack of money, lack of girlfriend etc.