I'm not questioning your motives. What else would you do except quitting the PhD and this way discarding three years of research...
I'm more startled that this seems to be considered as normal. As a foreigner you somehow expect certain standards of a country like UK regarding the working conditions. Not everybody has a partner or parents who are willing to finance them for so long. If it is just writing up, it is probably managable but usually people don't need one year to write up. As I already said, why do other countries manage that so much better? Of course countries like Denmark or Netherlands are much smaller than Germany or England but still....

People do tend to take a year to write up and submit. I think if I wasn't working and still doing lab work, the earliest I would have finished would be within 6 months. As it is, it has taken me 9 months. I think 70,000 words over 270 pages in 9 months, plus one paper and finding a postdoc whilst working 10 hours a week and 1 day of lab work a week is pretty good going to be honest.

Of course it would be nice to be funded and stroll through my 4th year, and of course then I would have taken 12 months to submit, but on the other hand, I have had to do a lot of work in my department and hence now have a load of teaching experience on my CV so it's not all bad. Plus, it's been hard, so I feel it's more of an achievement.

I believe students in Germany and the Netherlands are paid less than students in the UK. but I may be wrong. Obviously that evens out if we are not paid for our 4th year though.

The PhD students I know had about 6 months for writing. Of course they can concentrate just on their thesis, so 6 month of full time writing seem to be okay for them. There is also no such a thing as a word limit, while it seems to be pretty important to have a lot of words or pages in the UK. Saw theses which were only 100 pages long. If the content is appropriate nobody seems to care.



Teaching seems to be highly valued in the UK, so you really benefit from that. I have the feeling that this is not everywhere the case. All PhD students have to supervise interns in the lab, correct their project reports and such things, but it is rather considered as experience that you gain over time. If you apply for e.g. a Post Doc, then nobody cared if you have been teaching. They just expect that you can organize a practical course for students. It seems to be exclusively about reasearch. For a professorship you probably have to proof teaching experience. But that's always super country dependent. I heard that they have to teach a lot in France too.

Might feel more of an achievement, but still. I would assume that not everyone deals so well with a long term high stress level and too much work. Not everyone has parents who are willing to give financial support or a partner who helps out. By reading here I get the impression that a lot of people are burned out after their PhD and need comparably long phases to recover from that, while in Germany nobody would take a longer break after a PhD (especially because it would be deadly in terms of a future job). I think it should not be that hard for the average PhD student.

In Germany they definitely earn less (1200 to 1500 euros a month) and you also seldom get four years from the beginning but we have no tuitions or fees and the department often finds a way to finance the already expected overrun, without hiring you as a research assistant and making you work on non-PhD related topics. But it might be that I just met the nice group leaders so far ;)

In the Netherlands you earn 2100 euros in the first year and 2700 euros in the fourth year according to the PhD ads. They have 100% positions and are treated like normal employees in a company. You work full time, they pay you full time. That's what I experienced in scandinavia too. Unfortunately, most bigger european countries give a shit about PhD students and prefer to get more cheap labor over appropriate working conditions....
I don't know why that is, as these countries easily compete with Germany, UK and France in terms of research...

Having experiences of the countries Dunham mentions I am as well often shocked about the conditions here in the UK. Not just for postgrads but generally. In my eyes it's a massive, massive difference compared to the continent where things are better in many respects. PhD students in the Netherlands get pension benefits, they have their own offices and they do teach, mostly tend to develop a Mastermodule related to their research which they then teach, apart from some undergrad courses. They're generally not allowed to teach in their 1st and 4th year as the thesis would suffer.
Switzerland isn't exactly shoddy either regarding the conditions.
However, while teaching is valued in the UK it is not always easy to get it, how the teaching hours are allocated is often opaque (nepotism is key, like with many things in the UK), the pay is - not great and probably half of the PhD students in my department get through their PhD without teaching, some because they didn't get any hours, some because they didn't want to. You also often only hear whether you get the teaching a week or so before the course starts so it's not exactly brilliant regarding preparation either.

Is it the exception as opposed to the norm for people to take just 3 years to finish their PHD in the UK?
I don't start until October and am being given a really generous stipend so won't need to work at all and my supervisors have made it pretty clear they expect it finished within 3 years. I'm assuming (I know that's dangerous) that as I will be able to focus entirely on my research that it is doable, but the previous comments are making me wonder if this is the case?

Would love some feedback from those in the know.

I'm sure it is technically doable, Auroracase, but my impression is that lots of us find out that it's not very realistic as so many things can happen during the course of a PhD. I'm on a 3-year studentship too, and have had numerous hold-ups and stumbling blocks with recruitment of participants and data collection, for example. Like you, my supervisors are focused on it all being completed within the 3 years, and it is helpful to have them trying to keep things on track, but it sometimes means I feel at odds with them in supervision (for example, I want to talk about data collection issues and they want to move the conversation on to whatever they think the next target should be).

Although you don't need to work for the money during your 3 years, you may well find that you take on some work for the purposes of developing your CV and getting on in the department. I have taken on teaching, invigilating and research assistant work along the way, as well as doing things like teacher training, because I want to develop my skills as much as possible as well as producing a thesis.

At the moment, I'm aiming to have at least a full draft completed within the three years, thinking that this gives me the best chance of applying for jobs while still dealing with editing, corrections, viva etc. To have the whole thing done and dusted within 3 years would be quite difficult I think, as you'd need to submit months ahead of the 3-year cut off, and it would depend on your research all working like clockwork.Those are my thoughts anyway!

It's definitely possible to finish a PhD in 3 years. It's not easy, and if it's your main focus it can be done. But, if you're teaching, publishing papers, going to conferences/summer schools, taking training courses, helping with open days etc. etc. etc. then it's really quite hard to fit it all in. Now, of course you don't have to do all those other things, but if you're trying to keep in academia it's going to be very difficult to get a job without those things on your CV as well as the PhD.

Does anyone have access to the alternative funding guide? https://www.postgraduate-funding.com/gateway Could someone send me a copy please? :)

Yeah supervisors love to say this. If you are doing lab-based science, don't bet on being able to do it. It is totally the exception. I know one student who has done it. I think 3.5 years is realistic, and 3.75 years is probably an average completion time. My advice would be to save to ensure you have enough money to fund a whole 4th year. Then, if you manage to write up and have a viva before the end of your third year, you have a load of cash saved, if not, then you don't need to be stressed about finding a job whilst you are still writing up.

Hello, I am following this discussion with great interest as I am nearing the end of my funded 3rd year. I am quite far with my work, but will need at least another 6 maybe 8 months to finish. Now a highly paid lecturing job has come up in my field and I am wondering if I should apply. The requirements lists a PhD as essential, but I wonder if it would be acceptable to them to accept me finishing in my first year of employment. Has anyone been in this position? Would I just be wasting my time?

If you want to know whether they would consider your application the only way to find out is to contact them directly. Some adverts will actually say 'Must have a PhD or be close to completion'.

If you are interested in the role, and they don't deter you, then apply. If offered it, push for the latest possible start date.

Whether finishing a PhD while employed as a lecturer is something you want to do is also worth considering. It can be hard juggling dual commitments - try to get a feel for how supportive they would be.

For my final year of writing up I was self funded with a bank loan. I spent the absolute minimum to survive - no nights out, no new clothes or treats, and I lived on toast and got quite skinny because I couldn't afford food. It was depressing but I had no other choice unless I wanted to quit. My colleagues tried other strategies such as shacking up with an older woman in order to live in her house for free, donating eggs for IVF, selling their entire worldly possessions on Ebay, etc. I wish I was kidding...

And at the end of all of that? You can still be penniless with no job in sight, but hey, you made it!
The UK education system is shocking, to think a friend of mine with graduate from Uni with over £20K in debt.