We mostly agree then :-) . Just a few points:

No, Oxbridge shouldn't, and I didn't indicate otherwise. My point is that I'm not sure that only the best should be allowed to go to uni- not that people who have performed badly should be able to go to Oxbridge.



I agree completely with this. I specifically said "I hate the thought of denying lots of people who genuinely want higher education the opportunity to widen their horizons and better their prospects because they're not considered smart enough". Not only do I believe that being elitist will have this consequence, I doubt very much that it will prevent the type of students you've described (though I admit it will inevitably decrease the numbers, and likely decrease the proportion too).



I said: "I also don't like the idea of telling someone they can't follow their ideal career if they're passionate, and COULD POSSIBLY BE GREAT AT, based on their A level results. I suppose it all depends on how elitist we're talking". Perhaps you even could possibly be great at football given the opportunity. However, I don't think preventing you from becoming one of the very few professional footballers is fairly comparable to preventing people with mediocre A Level grades from having any chance of any job requiring a degree.



And the solution to this is less students? Are you implying that if we get rid of dumbass teachers, brilliant individuals will automatically fill that gap (bearing in mind also that there is less competition for other graduate jobs)? I don't disagree with what you're saying, I just don't understand your argument here.



Hmmm, I have mixed feelings about the national service. In principle it's a great idea, but in reality it depends on the implementation of such a scheme. When the Tories proposed the idea pre-election, I had a lot of issues with the ins and outs of it. It didn't go far enough in a number of ways, and I really feel the people who would be taking part in this national service are those who get involved in other already existing projects.

Aaargh I have real mixed feelings about this one.

Firstly, I was a mature student, and I entered uni through a rather crappy access course at my local college. If access to universities was given only to those who had really strong academic performance at school/college, I may not have been given a place (depending, of course, on the number of places available). I graduated top of my department. I also know many non-mature students who came out of uni with results that were inconsistent with their A levels.

Secondly, I don't think academic brilliance is the most important attribute for certain career paths. Take teaching - it (quite rightly) requires a degree. But the best teachers are not necessarily the ones who got the best results at degree level. Of course, I don't want stupid teachers, but there's so much more to teaching than academic performance. I know some great teachers- a couple of which came out of uni with 2.2s. I also don't like the idea of telling someone they can't follow their ideal career if they're passionate, and could possibly be great at, based on their A level results. I suppose it all depends on how elitist we're talking.

Some say that uni has wrongly become some sort of rite of passage. Well, I don't like the idea of students progressing to uni as though it is the natural thing to do with no particular passion for the subject, but, on the other hand, uni is such a beneficial experience in so many ways and I hate the thought of denying lots of people who genuinely want higher education the opportunity to widen their horizons and better their prospects because they're not considered smart enough.

Personally, I have a half-baked notion that it would be an extremely good idea not to let anyone progress straight from school to uni. Make everyone take a gap year. They'll get work experience, and those who are serious about attending uni will do so, and it will cut the numbers of those who are doing it because it is the easiest option and because it prevents the need for getting a job (unless of course they're still unemployed after a year out of school, which, in today's climate, is a strong possibility). I also think too many students regret their degree choice - a bit more time to reflect on their career prospects whilst in the real world could be helpful.

Before you go in, remember a time you felt great, a time when you were at your best - strong, smart and confident. Really try to picture yourself in that time and place, right down to the smallest details i.e. smell. This works for me. I sometimes get quite strange attacks of shyness and I just want to hide from people- far from charming. I focus on a particular time when, in my own opinion, my feelings and behaviour were everything I would want for and from myself. I imagine myself there, and that same wonderful person comes straight back.

Good luck :-)(up)

and the postrgradforumites breathe a sigh of relief :-)
Good work Walminski! 8-)(up)

======= Date Modified 14 Oct 2010 01:52:08 =======

Like CJ, I too am curious. Did you get the impression that Kizzy purposely marked the student down using the pretense that it was because of out-dated sources etc, when really it was because she is an atheist and was somehow so disgusted by quotations from the bible that she unfairly punished the student? It's not the impression I got, but perhaps Kizzy will clear that up. Still, bit harsh to accuse her of being bigoted with no real evidence.

As for quoting the bible/pope etc - depends how they're used and how much authority is given to sentiments expressed. If the quotation is relevant and not presented as though it is a generally accepted reality, I don't see the problem.

Sadly, there's likely to be very little rebellion- nowhere near enough to make a difference. Many Lib Dems are already back-peddling on all their promises- explaining to us, the stupid public, how agreeing to such increases in fees is not actually against that pledge they signed to grab student votes afterall.

After the election, the Lib Dems had very few options, and this was the best (catastrophic though it is) for their party's interests. If they'd let the Tories go it alone, we would've had another election in no time, at which point, Lib Dem voters would've abandoned them to vote for either Labour or Conservatives. They couldn't have made a coalition work with Labour. This was their only hope, but it was never in the country's interest.

They don't stand a chance next election. Anything good to come out of this government (y'know, for the rich etc) will be attributed to the Tories. The Lib Dems will only share in the (likely numerous) failures. In fact, if anything, they might find themselves more accountable - people expect the Tories to behave like this, but the Lib Dems have betrayed their principles and their voters to enable these Tory policies.

On a point more relevant to the original post: anyone else really glad that a graduate tax won't be implemented? What was Vince Cable thinking. One minute "Higher Education should be free", the next "you should pay for it for the rest of your life, even if you had to flip burgers when you graduated and work your way up to a graduate-taxable salary as though you never bothered going to university".

Are you suggesting that our current predicament is caused by over-spending on public services, or that the Banking Crisis wouldn't have happened on the Conservative's watch? Yes, Labour made many mistakes, but our economy would be no better right now had the Conservatives been in charge. Now they're sh*tting all over our society in ways too numerous to list here, and all under the banner of "we inherited a mess from Labour". Funny how these "unpalatable cuts" seem to fit quite nicely with their long-held ideology.

I really have tried to refrain from commenting on this thread, but I can't help myself. The Conservatives: a party of the rich, for the rich. The Lib Dems should hang their heads in shame. :-s

He posted in a thread called 'paper help please' warning us all of the illegality and immorality of infringing copyright (or, as most people would term it, helping each other out now and then with access to papers etc). :p

Sorry to intrude on your thread - I'm afraid I can't help with your query. :$

Best of luck (up)

Sneaks! Shame on you! If Eskobastion find out... :p

Good luck Sneaks! Contrary to what you've said, it sounds like you do know what to put in it. As for your earlier question about teaching (which you consider to be an area in which you have relatively little experience), definitely start with your strengths - it'll set the tone and you can talk about teaching experience in a more positive light. When is this happening? (mince)

Well done on winning your appeal - that must have taken a lot of determination. I'm sure you've given this plenty of thought and, whilst your feelings about your thesis are understandable, think even longer and harder if you're considering not resubmitting only because of all the anger and frustration you associate with it. You didn't mention any other reasons for not wanting to complete it. I understand it would be difficult, but is it still something you'd like to finish?

Good luck with whatever you decide (up)

Congrats Barnaby! :-)(up)

It's always the case with questions like these that nobody else can tell you what to do. It's often the case with questions like these that the asker has already answered:

Worth a try, no? And what's worse: potentially "being stuck out of science for another year", or "4 years of hell to be honest stuck doing subjects my heart just isn't with"?

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Not having a spare £600 is nothing to be embarrassed about. My supervisor knows I'm dirt poor and she understands. I'm sure your sup understands too (sprout)