I totally get what you mean - the system totally sucks and is not geared to helping the student.  As a PhD student you are just a number so they can say they have x no of students - you are an output! Even at undergrad level they want X no of students so they can get money - don't mention the word standards!  They pay for their education so they expect to pass! And doing research - it's all about who you know and how many research grants you can get or income generation!!  So the better connected you are the better off you'll be and this also depends on if you know the right people or went to the right uni!!! If not tough luck and you will always be an outsider as it's very cliquey!  There is also an awful lots of schmoozing in academia and you don't even have to be that good!

I can totally understand your frustration, disillusionment and lack of faith in the system! It does take you to do a PhD before you realise this as it's not so noticeable before when you were part of the system.  I really enjoyed uni until doing a PhD when you get to see how it really works and what people really think of you! So if you don't want to do research and don't see a future for yourself in the system I really wouldn't stay in academia!  It's not as cushy or academics in ivory towers as people outside academia think. It's just as cut throat although they may do it more subtlely!

Good luck for the future and the dilemma which isn't easy!
(up)

Oh yeah I have seen several PhDs that have looked fab and wished that I could have done them!  Then I ask myself the question of why weren't they available when I was looking for one! It's sod's law!  I have subsequently met the people doing them and told them what excellent projects they are doing! The grass is always greener on the other side or so I tell myself!!!

I'm with you all the way!  It sounds strangely familiar! I just wish my supervisor would take the slightest bit of interest in my work and actually help once in a while!  I'm not asking for much and don't think it's unreasonable! I'm still waiting for feedback back on my work too! I could grow a beard in the time it takes for the feedback!  I get that last point particularly - sometimes I think I might as well be invisible! I'm not that hard to talk to!  I think I need to remind them that I exist! My supervisor is also very random and you never know where they are coming from!  I'm also adding I wish my supervisor was consistent and actually remembers what they say! That's about it for now but I'm sure I'll think of few more now that you've got me thinking!
;-) Imagine if our wishes came true ....

Unfortunately I think it sums up alot of students today who want to be spoon fed and are there for the experience or because it's expected and not necessarily to learn! There isn't the same thirst for knowledge and I think alot of them don't honestly know why they are there! You should hear some of the crackers our students come up with! Having said that I know it's not true for all students but it's a sad state of affairs if this happens in academia! There has been alot of talk about standards and marking in our dept!

Congratulations Ruby! That's excellent news and it shows that we can all do it! I've never been brave enough to post on this thread as it makes me think that I should be writing loads more than I am at the mo! But it's been great reading it and an inspiration too! Great idea to take a break at the end of it! What a great way to celebrate!

Good luck for your viva! (up)

Yeah I second that! Totally agree!

Hello Sarah,  I worked for a few years before starting my PhD and I think it was the right thing for me.  It gave me an insight to what it'd be like to do a PhD and have a career in academia so I went into my PhD knowing what to expect workwise anyway!  It confirmed for me it was the right thing to do!

I don't think you are too late to apply for PhDs as you can basically start a PhD anytime although there maybe certain deadlines for funding you mentioned.   I would not rush into a PhD as it's a big commitment so it's a good idea to be sure it's what you want to do and that you are doing it for the right reasons. I would evaluate your decision carefully before deciding on doing one  - at the end of the day you need to be motivated enough to do the research (it takes over your life!) and write it up which will take 3-4 years!  I wouldn't worry about age as it doesn't matter and it's in your favour to have had experience working in different environments and you'll be able to knuckle down a lot quicker than someone who has just gone through the system!  There's no harm in applying for PhDs now if you're sure that is what you want to do, if not give it some more time in the real world (e.g. a year) and apply then or keep looking until you see something you fancy doing or get funding to do!

I'm just wondering is working in London part of the problem as I know many people find London a daunting and impersonal place so don't like it.  As everyone is so busy there it can be isolating, lonely and hard to meet people.  So amongst this feeling of disillusion are you thinking of academia with rose-tinted glasses as you were determined to leave it? 

As for commuting it's a pain and would be ideal if the both of you lived in the same place but I would not base your decision on this.  I know people who it has worked for as you both have to be flexible with the arrangements. 

Good luck with your decision!  Doing a PhD is life changing and you probably won't look at things in the same way again! (up)

It's good to be considering your future now but I would like to suggest that doing research and liking it is not the same as doing a PhD! Especially if you are not sure and feel too young - sorry to bring up this point but just because you enjoy research doesn't necessarily mean you'll enjoy doing a PhD! It's a huge difference from undergrad and even from a Masters which is like a half-way house and should not be thought of as an automatic progression. It's really good you've been given the funding for 2-3 month placement as that'll help you decide whether you can stick it out in this field! Some people find that they really like it and others don't. You can do research in the commerical subject especially doing what you do and it's better rewarded so you can consider that as well! It's really important to think about why you are doing a PhD and do it for the right reasons!

It's generally a good idea to move to a different uni to do your PhD although by no means compulsory as it'll give you different perspective and influences from new supervisors. If you stay in one place you won't be exposed to different methods of thinking and new ideas. Something to consider is that the research councils prefer people to have moved around as they believe it gives a person a broader education and a rounded edge.

Good luck (up)

I hear you all as I'm in the same position! I've had a depressing few days feeling very stupid and I hate the feeling too! It's not one you can explain when someone asks you what's wrong! Stats are evil and I'm having to learn them myself which worries me stupid especially if I get asked to explain them!!! Doh! I feel like there is so much more I should know and that I haven't learn very much! And then I think I've just gone and made a really stupid mistake in a really simple technique. I was really beating myself up about this and getting the sinking feeling in my stomach! I felt really dumb when I checked with one of my supervisors what I should be doing and I'm sure he thought I was an idiot as what he said showed he didn't understand where I was coming from! And I didn't get what he was explaining when I asked how to do something else! It really wasn't a very good day so I just left not having really resolved my problem! Think there has to be another way to do it!

I used to be an optimistic happy person too but that all went downhill since starting the PhD! Sometimes I think a personality transplant is needed to do one as I have felt down alot of the time and withdrawn! I really think PhDs should come with health warnings and I can understand why people who were doing PhDs used to say "Why?" to me when I told them I was about to start one though I didn't at the time! I also find it's a very isolating and needless to say stressful experience!

Hang in there and we'll get through it one way or another! Think we just need to have faith in ourselves and prove that we can do it!

That sounds familiar! Male academics especially the older ones seem to comment on females inappropriately! I have heard it reported that they prefer pretty ones and would give them the job over less attractive ones if everything else was equal (eg. qualifications) so I think it's learning how to work the system and use it to your advantage! It really does suck and I would have expected more from them but there are some things you can't change!

Hey I had this really long reply written but spell check ate it! :-s

Basically what you need to consider is this:

1) Reason for doing PhD - do it for yourself and you really want to as you have to motivate yourself! Of course take your b/f's feeelings into consideration as you'll need his support if one/both of you have to travel/commute to see each other/work as opportunities in academia are quite limited depending on subject and location.
2) Get a topic/project you are passionate about as it will take over your life and you have to have enough interest/motivation to see it through for the next 3-4 years!
3) Get a decent supervisor - a rare breed! But they can make all the difference and make your life so much easy and even enjoyable!!!!
4) Uni less important than supervisor as at this stage your sup is more important and you can get good sups at less well known unis.
5) Get a good dept that actually values its PhD students and is supportive and appreciates them!
6) Talk to current/previous students to get an honest opinon of the dept and the potential supervisor!

Good luck! (up)

For the record I never used to be so soppy before I started! I'm hopefully that I'll go back to being "normal" once all this over! Can't wait for the day!

Hey no sweat! I've been reduced to tears well before reaching the external examiner stage and probably will be when that is confirmed! I read elsewhere on the forum that a PhD is character killing especially if you are stressed. I even cried when I got a really nice unexpected e-mail offering to help during one of my really stressed out phases! I think it's just a reaction to everything - sometimes I feel that I just can't hold it in and don't even know why I've got tears! I think it's just a reaction to stress! Everyone deals with it in different ways! At least I'm trying to convince myself I'm not mad or perhaps I am for having agreed to do this! Besides no one who does a PhD is normal - we're all freaks in our own way! Hang in there - it's almost over! You'll be Doctor in no time!

A lot of it depends on the dept/uni itself.

In science a lot of projects are specified with their own funding (eg. uni, research council, private, charity) so if you get the position you get the funding attached to it (tuition fees which are the same for UK/EU students and a tax-free studentship).  There are also examples where depts advertise a list of projects or sometimes you can submit your own into an open competition where funding is not guaranteed so say for eg. there are 2 fully funded studentships and 10 projects available the top 2 candidates will get awarded the funding and others may get offered a place but have to get their own funding.  You cannot apply to research councils for money directly as the money is given to specific depts for them to choose the student.  If in such examples you can talk with the supervisor to see what they suggest and as you say they are so variable but most will usually help and offer suggestions!

Good luck!

Hang in there!  I know exactly how you feel! It just feels endless and that you are not getting anywhere!  And to top it all off your supervisors don't care or appreciate how much effort you put in! It really does suck but it will come to an end and you can show them that you can do it!  You do need to take a day off occasionally otherwise you will go mad and breakdown! Nobody expects you to work 24/7 although some supervisors do but they are very unreasonable!  Just take it in your stride and get a good night's sleep! It makes all the difference!  Just think of the look on your supervisor (s) faces when you get your PhD - you have to do it in spite of them and show that you can do it! As I read elsewhere on a thread a PhD is also character building (or killing - they can try!) to see how much you can put up with! 

Finances are terrible - they certainly don't like to pay up! Have you anyone to give them a kicking on your behalf?  They usually listen to dept staff more than students unfortunately!

Good luck, you'll get there, have good results to write about and do a good job of it as well!   And it's important to rant and let off steam! 8-)