Put me in the 'hating' column... or at the far end of the 'love-hate' line. I think that's because I'm not actually managing to produce anything at all, though.

You don't normally have to give back the money... as far as I'm aware. And quitting it shouldn't be too difficult. But if you're having problems, I think you should either tell your supervisor (nicely and subtly) about your problems or find out who else you can talk to- there's sure to be someone or some office you can go to for advice.

I guess the only way to get an answer would be to really scrutinise the fine print of the regulations of the university in question. It sounds like UK universities don't allow it, but it might work elsewhere. Alternatively, could just go for the MPhil...

Forgot to add... it's not just students=income, it's also that students leaving screws up those precious statistics- particularly if the student has funding, because the funding councils tend to take an interest in where their money goes...

This may not help, but... I would have killed for that kind of supervision and assessment in my first year (or subsequent years). Really, even if I was told I needed to resubmit- hell, even if I was told to give up- it would have been better than what I've ended up doing, which is rumbling along ineffectually in no particular direction, not producing anything and having nobody asking me to produce anything. I honestly think you should be grateful that your university is doing it right.

I think your worries are quite normal, though, and it sounds like you can get through this. It sounds like you know what you're doing, and that people know about/are interested in what you're doing, which is more than I've ever managed in three years. So I don't think there's too much to be concerned about. If you're genuinely worried, though, there is always the bottom line argument. One thing I was told before- I'm not sure how true this is, but I certainly suspect it applies in my own situation- is that universities, when push comes to shove, do not want students to leave. Students=income. I suspect then that this is about making sure you're completely ready, not any kind of final test.

Thanks so much for your replies, guys. In a way it's reassuring that other people have had similar experiences- but in another way, of course, it's a pretty damning indictment of the system(s). Bilbo's thesis monitoring system sounds fantastic. In theory I guess the transfer of status at my university serves a similar function, but as my case demonstrates it's very easy to slip through the cracks of that if there's no pressure from the supervisor. Another point is that passing the transfer visa is a formal requirement, so it works like a job interview- and who uses their job interview to discuss their doubts?

I agree with the suggestions that I need to write something- which, handily enough, is also my requirement at this stage. I'm kind of relying on me producing... something through a sheer effort of will, but I'm going to make damn sure I ask for specific help from as many quarters as possible. I think that one thing that prevents me from asking is the feeling that I need something- anything- to show people- but I'll try to get that 'anything' together. I'll also try looking at books about thesis writing- and I have a few existing theses I can look at- it's more that I can't really see how mine can shape up, but they are a useful guide in general.

And to Corinne- believe me, I find it odd as well. I do wonder who OK'd my initial thesis proposal and what he/she saw in it that I haven't been able to find- in fact, I really should ask if I can find that out. It was a fairly general document that I was planning to narrow down- and I think I failed to find leads for the narrowing down. I know that one of the assessors when I transferred was pretty sceptical about whether I could come up with anything very new- the problem is that I'm inclined to agree with him...

Finally, to all the people who do have inactive supervisor woes- apart from asking for help, I think the other thing everyone needs to do is to mention the problems at every feedback opportunity. The job requirements for supervisors are, I think, specifically written to avoid the university being able to say 'the PhD is an independent project, so the student bears full responsibility and it's their job to get in contact with the supervisor'- at least in my case, there are also clear requirements for the supervisor. I think what a lot of universities lack- mine perhaps more than most- is an effective system for ensuring that the requirements on both sides are met throughout the PhD. Where this is the case, the universities really need to be told.

Oh God, the character count didn't tell me I'd gone over until after posting and now the end of the post is missing...

OK, short version...

...original application for the PhD itself. I assume I was passed because students failing looks bad for the university. I again didn't properly talk to my supervisor about what I was doing, and went abroad to do research/reading/trying to work out what I was doing. Nearly a year later, and now I've got to submit an actual thesis chapter from my nonexistent thesis... so I'm going to find out exactly how much universities dislike failing students.

So, if anyone read to the end... what do you think? Is it all my fault for not asking for help? Is this kind of situation at all familiar or is it an exciting new form of PhD disaster?

Finally... even if you do think it's all my fault, if you're planning to be or are in a position to supervise students, for the love of God ask them what they're doing, ask to see their work, etc. Don't assume that if you don't hear from them they're doing fine. Without wanting to deny my own responsibility, I'm pretty sure that is actually in the guidelines for supervision anyway, but... please do it. And to any students in a remotely similar situation: ask for help ASAP.

I just posted this in the 'lessons learned' thread, but I really want to know if anyone else has similar experiences/feelings toward their PhD...

I'm a history PhD student in the UK, just coming up on three years now- I had an extra language-learning year, so in theory there's one more year to go. And here's the thing: I really don't know what I'm doing. Ask me what my thesis is about (or worse, what my thesis IS) and I can only give a very general, hesitant answer, which is the same one I would have given you three years ago. I try to avoid the question altogether. Talking to other students is a weird combination of bluffing and being EXTREMELY interested in what they're studying. So, what have I been doing for three years? Language-learning aside, I've been reading in the general area I'm looking at and looking at primary documents (probably not nearly enough), hoping that somehow I will discover something new, something that gives direction and structure and makes this thing seem doable. I haven't so far found anything. My thesis does not exist.

Now, I know that a lot of this is my own fault- the biggest problem being that I never ask for help, or at least never make clear the extent of help that I need. My advice to anyone in a remotely similar situation is, of course, to very clearly ask for help, because regardless of how blame might be distributed, you are the only one who will bear the consequences. However, the thought strikes me that it should not be possible to do what I've done. There should have been some system- some means of checking that I was actually making progress and knew what I was doing.

In theory, of course, there is: the supervisor system. The supervisor is, however, just one person. In my first year I had a supervisor who left the university at the end of that year. I actually had classes with him, but in terms of actual supervision meetings- as I recall there were only four. And the really strange thing is, during those short meetings, I don't think we ever discussed my thesis: the questions I was trying to answer, the sources, related reading, theory, that kind of thing. All I can remember doing in these meetings was together trying to work out the timescale for transferring from probationer research student to PhD candidate. It turned out it had to be done by the end of the second year, and since I wasn't really getting anywhere, I just decided to go for that, and he agreed. When he left I met my new supervisor once before heading off on my language year, which I hoped would allow me to sort out what I was doing- but, without much time to work on my 'thesis' anyway, I didn't email him and again didn't ask for help. I did transfer, a term late, by working up a quick essay with no obvious connection to the (nonexistent) broader thesis and a 'thesis plan' which, while apparently good enough for the assessors, doesn't in my opinion provide anything more to work from than the original application for

Many of these seem to be science-y, so I'll throw in this from an arts perspective:

If you feel you have no idea what you are doing, tell someone. Ask for help.

...this nugget of wisdom, which I would hope is more obvious to most people than it was to me, is the result of three years spent having no real clue what I'm doing. I can partly blame a lack of supervision- it sounds ridiculous, but at no point during the first year did my then supervisor actually initiate any discussion about my thesis plan, ideas, etc. Where I went wrong is that I didn't do that either, and the longer it went on the more embarassing it felt to actually point this out. That supervisor left at the end of the first year, but the problem didn't go away- my new supervisor presumably assumed I was as on top of things as I should have been at that point. And, again, the longer it goes on the more weird and embarassing it gets to say. I'm now hitting a point where I should submit a chunk of my thesis and a detailed plan for the rest of it... and I still have no idea, so presumably I'll be crashing out very soon. So... ask for help.