Oh poor Alpacalover. I know how you feel though. I got a soul-destroying response to my writing from my supervisor, which totally knocked my confidence. He was rather mystified because I'd sailed through a Masters and had produced a journal paper (single authored) by this time. Personally I think the scale of the chapters in a humanities PhD was a big part of the problem for me. Plus problems to do with the nature of my evidence and methodology, and how best to present that. And the fact that I was an ex-scientist trying to write in the arty humanities style - not to be underestimated as a problem!

Anyway I got him to give me really constructive feedback on what exactly was wrong, and what I needed to fix. Then I rewrote to suit that. And it's been fine ever since. And, of course, I passed my viva 8-)

Thanks Bilbo, well at least you had a good excuse moving between disciplines! I have none :(

Just got response from him, going over to see him on Sunday, so not long to wait to hear although the comments and probably evil statements of how stupid i am!
He's told me not to keep working on chapter 3 until i've seen him, which means it must be really bad and not just writing style but the actual content! not sure how to deal with this, just going to try not to think about it too much cos if I do i'll just sit and cry!

question is now, should I at least do some reading and sort out my key discussion points, but then if it is all the content as well as style and i'm going completely down the wrong track then there is no point!
What I don't understand is that i FEEL like I said what I wanted to say about the results, I have my key ideas etc about what i have found and it's very depressing to think he could think that's all totally wrong! Surely this is my thesis therefore I decide what my results mean? ARGHHHHHHH!

AL, first of all, I'm proud of how you dealt with his reply first of all! no alcohol involved even! :-) It's good that you get to meet him this weekend to go over it all, if I were you I'd take the rest of the day off and not even think about work. Then tomorrow have a read over your chapter and try to see it as he might, try to find other reasons for your results that you've not though of before. Then decide of these are as good as your own initial interpretation and how you feel about them.
Even if your supervisor doesn't tell you what you might be hoping to hear, at least he's taking the time to sit and go over it properly with you. Spend some time thinking about where you feel you might be going wrong with style and content and think through everything you want to discuss with him.. and write it down so you don't forget, I have to take little lists into meetings or I just forget stuff!
Ultimately it is your project, and if you really feel the way you have interpreted your data is the right way then it's up to you to find a way to show and prove that to your supervisor. Which is all excellent practice for the viva and academia!
If you've gotten this far then obviously you have the intelligence to do this, and you have a job so obviously you are good at what you do, this is just another little bump, but most of all, don't lose faith in yourself :-)

Thanks AQ, what great advice! :)

I am also quite proud of myself, I just felt there's nothing I can do about it, i'm determined to finish and therefore I just have to get on with it. we'll see how strong I am after seeing him face to face though....!

You're right, i've not read it for a week, therefore maybe if I try and take a step back I will see it differently. I shall get my notepad out and put down anything that I think might be wrong or could be worked on. He's more likely to respect me and how hard i've been working if I take stuff along and show that i'm trying and i'm keen to get it right!
I sometimes make mistake of going to meetings and remembering everything he's said, but not writing it down, and then later I can't remember, therefore I will be armed with notepad and write down everything he says, all the changes etc.
I think sometimes the problem is all sups are different, they (and everyone else) have their own writing styles, therefore to someone else, although my content maybe lacking the style might not be so bad! But unfortunately its him that has to pass me and sign the form therefore I have to write to his liking. So notes of every little thing we go over will be made and then I can make a bullet point list and keep it above my desk, making sure that I stick to the rules! :)

Hope you have a good day and thank you for support and advice. AL x

Hi AL

Big hugs!!! Oh, that's horrible getting feedback like that. I've had the same, but not only were content and style not good enough, but my argument and even the title were lacking!! So, it could be worse!;-)

Good advice from AQ - take some time off, then have a read through again. Make sure you really clarify what he wants and take lots of notes. Then maybe have some time off to digest his comments, and get back to it after a break when you can better cope with looking at it again. It's good that you're meeting on a Sunday - maybe plan to do something nice with your partner after the meeting, and relax for a bit.

Yep, highs and lows. Just as we think we're getting somewhere, another set-back happens. But we are progressing, we're getting closer to finishing, it's just really slow.

Good luck for Sunday!

Gah!! I just got back from a lovely weekend, I took work with me so I did a bit on the Friday and Saturday so I managed to get myself to the point where I wasn't feeling guilty anymore for going away (I had to as it was a uni trip organised by my club) and I was really quite relaxed yesterday and today, until I got back and found out I didn't get the placement I had applied for :( I'm totally gutted, it would have been such amazing experience and would have helped me get the job that I want so much! Now I'm feeling all stressed again, I can feel a freaking out session on the horizon of my mental state.... :(

I hope your meeting went well yesterday Alpacalover and you are feeling better about how to write to suit your supervisor, it's impossible to please everyone!

Hey AQ, that's terrible! Am so disappointed for you. Big hugs from me - you don't need that stress. Try not to freak out - just concentrate on getting finished - you're so close!! Something else will come up - or if it doesn't, well, you'll have a little break, pick up some work, think about life, and enjoy being done!!

Can you get some feedback on why you weren't chosen? Then have a rant, go to the pub, talk to some friends. Be kind to yourself. Doing a PhD is crap, not getting the position is really crap - something good will come up, but for now, just keep going.

HI AQ, thats rubbish about your placement, but as they say, if it's for you it won't go past you! I'm sure something better will come along, so don't despair, just keep working away at the thesis and you'll get there!

Well, i'm feeling ok, but really exasperated with my sup! after his email telling me not to do anything, I decided I might as well chill out and enjoy what was left of the hols - as it will prob be my last day off until this is all done! I relaxed, spring cleaned the flat and got some zzzz's! Feel much better for it!
Went to see sup yesterday and we went through my chapter together and made most of the corrections, it was mostly just styles of writing and afew inconsistencies with abbreviations, notations etc! He'd already done some work for me on the intro so when I went home I sat with the original and revised next to eachother and went through it sentence by sentence. Was extremely infuriated to find out it was changes like utilised becoming employed etc etc - just his own preferred wordings! Granted some of it made the sentences more coherent and easier to read through, more scientific sounding etc, but most of it was stupid changes! Therefore, i basically lost 2 days of discussion writing that could have seen my next chapter in a much better condition!
I've also ended up having a mini feud with him about the way of writing per something (ie m/s)! He told me that writing m s^-1 is WRONG, COMPLETELY WRONG blah blah blah!!!! I went away and found the National Institute of Systems and Technology rules, who clearly state on the first page that this is right!
In a slightly pissed off state - having watched him go through my chapter and take out all the - signs and making it m s^1 (where's the per...) - I sent him a very nice, polite email saying that I felt like I was going mad having been taught this for years, and therefore found this reference and have decided to go through and change them all back to the original with - sign. He basically emailed back today saying well i'm still wrong! and then "Sucks to be you - i'll inform your external examiner of this issue...hah hah.....!" i'm not sure how sarcastic he was being, as he can be very jokey etc in a patronizing way. Anyway, i'm not going any further with this, but did just check a recent paper my external examiner who uses the correct notation as I have done :) AL 1, Sup 0! :) I really hope with all my heart that he says something to the guy, just to see his face when it gets thrown back at him!

Apologies for the long rant, but tbh, when he can act like that, and be so un-knowledgeable about a key rule in science writing, then it makes me doubt a lot more things about him and his writing, and really makes me worry about the stylistic changes he is making me do in my thesis.

But, in retrospect, i have only lost 2 days writing, and having gone through it bit by bit with him and then coming home and making additional changes, sorting out inconsistencies in graphs etc, my second chapter is now finished and basically ready to go! :) HURRAH, 2 down, 3 to go! :p

right, off to get stuck back into chapter 3 for an hour or so! big hugs to all and keep smiling x

ah, done for the night!
I've been trawling through what i've written of Chapter 3 trying to make sure it is in line with sups requests etc, and all consistent with style of chapter 3! Almost finished results, but can't take anymore and must sleep before work tomorrow!
Imagine where we'd be right now if it wasn't for style etc.....! (I think i'd have my Dr status by now, maybe....)

hope you're having productive day Sue, and sleeping tight AQ.

good morning folks!
thanks so much for the advice Sue and AL, you've really cheered me up! had a bit of a miserable evening, just feeling sorry for myself really and freaking out about work and jobs....when i ended up crying and throwing stuff at the TV when Gordon Brown started going on and on about the need to train more people in specialised skills, I decided maybe that's enough for the evening! So I had a long chat with my boyfriend on the phone and went to bed! I'm telling myelf that this obviously wasn't for me, I've missed other things in the past only to end up with something much better, so obviously this is one of them, although I'm going to see where my application fell down and reapply for it next time. And it's back to work as normal today.
I'm glad your chapter meeting went ok with your supervisor AL, as frustrating as it is when they make a big deal out of changing words and stuff, at least you don't have to rewrite the whole thing!! and you have a nice clean flat now to live in! Good work on the notation issue too, I hope your external sees your supervisor for what he is and takes pity on you for what you've had to endure for years! :-)

Good luck for today's work folks, we are getting there!

Glad to hear you're feeling better AQ! Yeh, when pollies talk about the need for specialists, or in Australia, the 'education revolution' - they're not talking about me!! So much guff!! Glad you had a good chat with your boyf and are feeling better. Keep going - you're getting close!!

And AL, your supervisor sounds like a right tool. I know you've said he is, but honestly!!!! As AQ says, at least you don't have to do a major rewrite - that's excellent!!

I had a chat with my sup yesterday - I think she's getting impatient with me - she told me that I hadn't included my research question in the 2 page abstract I spent 4 whole days writing (which I hadn't), and seemed a bit annoyed. And then told me to 'write quickly' and 'clearly and concisely'!! Well, I am trying!! Maybe she can also see this is neverending...

Have been working like a demon. Starting work at 6.30 and working though till 10pm, with a couple of decent breaks during the day to recharge. Can't go any faster!! Rewriting the first chapter of 11...erk....but determined. Only way out is through.

Happy and productive working AQ and AL, and others on the thread we haven't heard from for a bit!

yea where is everyone else?! Hope we haven't scared them off!
Sounds like you're working like a demon alright Sue! Just don't be trying to do too much and make sure you are taking some decent breaks, to keep the quality of your work up to par. Although writing quickly, clearly and consisely is a bit of a challenge! like your first draft is the only one! lol! But as you say the only way out is through, and you are getting very close to the end!

I got my 2nd chapter finished today, and my 3rd one is about half/two thirds of the way there so I'm getting close to my timetable again. Still have to get the experimental work sorted, it's dragging on a bit and really getting stressy. But it will all get done, best keep a hold of sanity another while longer!

One month to go till my moc viva - still writing though lol

Hello Peeps!! goodness, we must all be working very hard - its ages since we've posted, I hope you're all ok?
Well, i've had a busy couple of weeks of normal work and trying to work evenings and weekends :( eventually got the basis of my chapter 3 down on paper, i have all the text and now I just need to proofread and check it all, not 100% happy with discussion, but will see what sup says, if he doesn't say anything then I dont' care anymore!! :-s

AQ i hope you're feeling better now and seeing the positive, how's chapter 3 coming on? And sue, I hope the rewrite is going steadily, don't worry about sup, they are sent from hell to kill us softly,or maybe not so soft, but you can only do your best, just be proud of what you are doing.

Right, i better get back to work.
take care all and keep smiling, AL xx

Thanks for getting this going again AL.

In the last few weeks I had a bad bout of writers block...then got over it; now things are going well. Well almost according to plan at least. Only one week behind my self-imposed schedule - and that was the writers block week!
How is everyone else?

;-)