Hey AL, the non-thesis work is for my benefit, so can't say no. But have actually refused to rewrite a chapter like she's suggested, am just going to tweak it. So that's something. And I need to work hard, otherwise I won't be graduating till November NEXT YEAR!!! I need to submit by end Oct to have even an outside chance of graduating in May next year - if I miss this, then I have to wait till Nov 2011. This system just sucks.

We have the same system here Sue, but at different times of year. Actually my uni only ever used to have June graduations. So if you missed that for one year you had to wait until the next June for graduation. They've now added November autumn graduations, mainly for research students.

But, as I've said before, at least in the UK graduation at PhD level is a formality. Once the award has been approved by examiners you effectively have it, and it's just a case of dotting the 't's, and needn't stop people getting jobs etc. Actually my award was final when Senate conferred it, so I was a doctor from that date onwards, not from the graduation day.

Well, I didn't think it was possible for this to happen, but then, it's PhD land, when travelling through the seven fires of hell, there is no limit to the utter crapness that can be bestowed upon us....

Today was the penultimate hand in day. I had my 4/5 hours sleep that I've been living on for the past God knows how long, got up early, started cracking on with my references so I can hand in tomorrow. Hand in was meant to be next week, but then I found out it had to be tomorrow by my main sup. So I've been flat out, to the point where my mum is threatening to put a sleeping tablet in my tea. At lunchtime, I finished the first draft of my refs, and allowed myself a small smile. It's nearly over. One more day of misery and I'm free. Then at 2pm, my 2nd sup emails to say that he thinks I should postpone my viva, and hand in a month later as he still hadn't got me data that I've been waiting 5 months for, and that there were really too many corrections that remained for me to do and I would be lucky to get them done in the time allocated after the viva if I handed in now.
Cue a whole pile of emails back and forth trying to work out what the hell was going on, a teary phone call to my main sup who said he had apparently been 'hinting' at me to hand in later - by hinting, I asked him directly a month ago if I should postpone the viva and he said 'it's up to you'...worst hint ever I think.
Finally pulled myself together, decided to postpone if my corrections were that bad, I don't want to do the viva and have my thesis torn to shreds after all. Emailed my 2nd sup to tell him, and received a reply saying that it was the best thing to do, but he didn't need to meet with me to discuss corrections, as they were just specifics, comments - i.e. formatting, spelling, units changes. Thing I could have submitted with.

So now, I have lost most of the day, have absolutely no chance of submitting on time and have to wait, all cos my supervisor decided to tell me the day before submission that I have too many corrections. And the best bit - he hasn't even read the chapters yet. I had to send them to him again.

I'm so so unbelievably gutted, I've spent months telling myself just until September, just another month, just another week, just another few days...and now I'm submitting in another month or two, however long it takes for my sup to read the last 4 chapters and get corrections back. Cannot even believe it.

Sorry for the down post, just feels so unfair.

Hi Algaequeen, I've been following your progress, rooting for you to hand in and really admiring the dedication you have shown to handing in on time. Even when you found out you had only a matter of days, you never surrendered. You did your discussion in something like a day! And then your supervisor drops this bombshell on you. I don't want to swear because I'll get modded, but FFS! It's a shambles and an utter disgrace. Hint? That wasn't a hint - it was as blunt as a scalpel. I don't mean to cause offence, but your main supervisor epitomises nearly every horror story you read about bad supervisors. To not have read your chapters, even up until the last minute (and then ask you to send them again) is just plain not on. What planet does he live on? He doesn't deserve the privilege of having PhD students. He can argue being too busy and overloaded all he wants, but when you take on PhD students you are duty bound to give them appropriate contact time. If you can't do that, you shouldn't have PhD students in the first place.
I'm really sorry you've had to experience this. With better communication and greater fluency of feedback it could/should have been avoided. I hope he reflects at some point on how ineffectual he has been as a supervisor and gives you a sincere apology. It really is unfair.
Best wishes.

Oh AQ that's just terrible!!! That really is the pits!!!

I thought my putting my submission date back a month (again...) was awful, but your experience takes the cake! This really is worth a formal complaint - as Walminski says, telling you the day before submission that you have corrections to make is not on. Hasn't this sup got any concept of planning? Or responsibility to his students? Obviously not. I'm so outraged for you!! But no, you can't complain to the uni, as we need these people and can't afford to burn bridges.

Can you have a few days off? Do something nice, forget about his horror for a while, sleep and eat and recharge a bit.

We're with you AQ, outraged but confident you'll get there. Honestly, this really is the worst thing to go through! Hugs to you!!

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I had the interview for the dream job, and it went terribly. I didn't understand some of the questions - they gave me a long, convoluted question about methodology, which ended in 'how would I manage a national survey' and I started stumbling through talking about research design etc, and they didn't want that. I started talking about managing a project, and they seemed to like that. They asked me how I'd feel, as a qual researcher, about working with quant researchers - what was I supposed to say to that?? At the end of the interview I realised that I hadn't even talked about the research project they were advertising, which is my area of expertise. Instead I tried to show them I knew about lots of stuff, and blathered on inarticulately about related matters.

What a schmozzles. Oh well. It was in my home town, where I hated living and left years ago. Going back just reinforced my reservations about moving back there. Maybe it was a case of self-sabotage, even though I've studied and practised for this job for weeks. If it's meant to be, it will be. Gosh, must be the wine talking (am on my 2nd wine, waiting for my flight), am philosophical already...

Hi AQ,

sorry to read regarding your disappointment after you have worked so hard. It must habe been even more disheartening, as the message related to postponing the submission was given in such an unprofessional way.

Even so perhaps it comforting to read that you are not he only one who had to wait longer than expected. Quite of few of us were thinking of completion in Summer and are moving towards the Winter, for some it will take even longer. So, do not give up, keep going, you will get there! :-)

Hi everyone, thanks for the support :-) I'm only back on this now, couldn't face it before.

Things are kind of ok at the moment actually, it's all turned out alright, mainly due to my main sup stepping up and realising how bad the situation was. Wally, sorry if my post wasn't clear before, I could hardly see for tears as I was typing, but it was my 2nd sup who emailed the day before submission to say i should postpone, my main sup was ok with the thesis and for me to submit on time. However, it was him who had been 'hinting' at me postponing before, my 2nd sup just kind of shrugged and said 'humph, whatever' when we talked about it before. I agree that it's an absolute disgrace that this was allowedt to happen, although my 2nd sup has a bit of a habit of doing this kind of thing. I thought I had done my best to get him sorted though so I wouldn't be in this situation, I gave them all a timetable of when to expect chapters in January and busted my ass trying to stick with it. My main sup said if any corrections came too late just to ignore them as it would make me miss my deadline etc. But the way my 2nd sup worded his email implied it was a major problem with the thesis that result in resubmission at best. When I asked him for a meeting on Friday to find out what it was though, he said we didn't need a meeting as it was just specific comments in the paper that needed changed i.e not major problems, but small things that I could have submitted with. I was devestated, as I could have submitted after all. and Rick, I would have been ok with being told a month ago to submit later, but being told the day before was just horrible.

Anywhoo, after finding this out, my main sup emailed me apologising, saying he though he had let me down and he was sorry. He has arranged an extra bit of reserach work for me to give me a bit of money for the next few months, and said he would contact my examiners to let them know about the postponement - I hope this means he will tell them that it's not me missing my deadline but due to last minute corrections from a crappy sup, I don't want it going against me.

So I'm feeling a bit better, still gutted that I'm still not submitted, but at least this way I'll have time to go over the thesis again and be more confident going into the viva. Silver lining and all that.

And Sue, I hope your job interview went ok in the end, sounded like a scary process!! It's all experience though, you'll be well sorted for future interviews, and if it's for you it won't pass you. But good luck for hearing back from them! xx

Hey AQ, glad to hear you're a bit better. What a terrible situation, but at least your sup has apologised, and the examiners won't think it's your fault. Excellent you've picked yourself up, and are ready to keep going. Honestly, this is such a torturous process, wouldn't wish it on anyone. We really should have a virtual party when we're all done - thing is, whose time would we use, so who'd be the ones drinking champagne at breakfast? ;-)

Thanks Sue! As for the virtual party, if I ever get this nightmare finished, I'll be quite happy to drink champagne all day long, so I can start in for breakfast if that suits! :-) Hope everything is going ok at your end!

Hi everyone! I hope you're all doing ok? Sorry I've not been around and wasn't there during your hell last week AQ, I can't believe all that happened, what a sh*temare! But i'm so proud of you for picking up and keeping going I think I would have thrown the thesis through my sups window and walked away if that was me! :) (but i'm a little emotional right now...!

Ok, so in exactly 7 days time I will be in the middle of my viva!!! I have done absolutely sweet nothing yet, well it feels that way! I'm still struggling through writing my pre-viva seminar talk, which sounds awful when I try and present it to myself out loud, not sure what i'm meant to say and what I shouldn't!

I haven't got past the introduction yet of my thesis checking for mistakes etc, and doing a page by page summary! still got a good few papers I want to reread, one chapter I know I need to study up on a bit more, and main key questions to have answers too!!

I can't believe I have to get all my prep done in 6 days, luckily I have been given 5 of them off work (I cried on my boss! :) )! But i'm so tired and just still can't be bothered, i'm freaking out inside, but the rest of me is like, oh who cares, que sara sara!! I did get abit of good news yesterday though, my supervisor emailed to say he'd seen the externals preliminary report and it was 'entirely positive'! and he's gonna bring couple of bottles of champagne into the office for afterwards (guess he's expecting we can celebrate...!). He also said 'all that is expected of you is that you don't go to pieces in the viva'! He has said my chapter 4 needs to be concentrated on over next few days, to back up the excuses (!) I have made about lack of data etc - I wouldn't have called them excuses though, more explanations, equipment failure etc! So not sure what I can have as back up, but I know its my externals main area of interest,therefore I'm expecting him to want to discuss this chapter most! I don't know where I'm going to find time to revise that though, need to get the main stuff done first....!

Anyway, I hope you're all doing ok, sorry i'm in a little hell/stress/teary/emotional bubble at the moment! but thinking of you all, keep your chin up folks, and Sue, i'm sorry you feel interview didn't go well, but you never know, have you heard yet? as said though, i fully believe that what's for you doesn't go past you, and if it wasn't meant to be then just look forward, something better will be coming your way!

Big hugs, and I'm totally up for a champagne breakfast - we could just skype it up! :)

AL x

Crikey Alpacalover: good luck! The crikey is me thinking of a viva in a week's time. Been there done that ;-) You have plenty of time to prepare though, so don't worry. Focus on your talk, the chapter your supervisor says, and if possible the 5 key things I recommend focusing on: originality of thesis, contribution to knowledge, methodology, weaknesses/gaps/mistakes, and what would I do differently if starting again. Those only take a few minutes really to think about. I summarised my answers to them on a single side of paper, and took it into the viva with me.

Lucky you getting a sneak insight into the examiner's thinking. I went in blind, expecting anything from failure upwards! And I definitely had a Que Sera Sera attitude about everything.

Thanks Bilbo, that's good to here! :) My aim for today is just to get talk written and maybe do chapter of thesis. I'm trying not to push myself with those 10-12 hour days I was doing before my submission as it really seemed to affect my health and I don't feel that it is worth it!

I did read the Tinkler book and found it very helpful, if only just to read about other peoples experiences etc, and calm me down a little.

I realised this week that everyone believes in me, except me! Even my horrid sup seems to think all will be well and I shouldn't have any problems as long as I keep myself together! But I don't seem to be able to look at it and see anything but holes. I think the main thing I need to do is just be confident, think confident, obviously not too confident, but just to be proud of what I have done and achieved and believe int eh work I have done. And after getting comment from external I feel much better, although a tiny part of me is worried that sup is lying...!

Anyway, better get on with this talk and stop procrastinating. Did you have a talk to do? how long would you recommend?

I'm thinking about 20-25 mins, as my convenor said talk is set for 1.30 with viva starting around 2ish! Which is quite vague, but obviously depends on who turns up to talk and the questions I get! I think if I can keep to 25mins max and then 10 mins of questions (I hope!), then that would be fine, but there seems to be no guideline!

I didn't have a talk to do. I was a humanities student, and it's unusual in that field to do a talk. Also I'm a severely disabled student with huge neurological problems, and I said to my supervisor very clearly that I didn't want to do a talk at the start 8-)

My external's very first break-the-ice question was something along those lines though, asking me why I'd chosen my topic, and then she followed up a point I made about there being a huge gap to ask why. So I sort of gave a little talk as such, but in a more relaxing way.

Hi AL and everyone

Wow, your viva in a week!! That's good AL, soon you'll be Dr AL!! You can do it!! One of my sups gave me some good advice for the job interview I bombed, which could help you too - be confident and own the space. I like the concept of 'owning the space' - shows we're in control, we know what we're doing. AL, think positive thoughts. As you've pointed out, everyone else believes in you, you should too. You're going to do brilliantly. And do you really need to summarise each page of your thesis? Sounds like a huge amount of work - can't you just summarise the main points of each chapter?

I've got this week off work to write - have another week to rewrite 3 chapters, then read and edit the whole thing again so I can send off to my sup. Getting there...life has settled down a little for me, which is so good, so I can concentrate on the thesis. My poor sweet dog is getting worse though, and we think she won't be here for much longer...if I had've finished my thesis on time, on one of the many deadlines I missed, we would've done it all together! Looks like she won't make it to the end with me!!! Which saddens me incredibly, but I'm coming to terms with the inevitable....ah, life is still hard...

Yes, champagne all round when we're all done!