young lecturers or research fellows can be very much like us PhD students, especially if we are mature students. some of them are even still writing up their PhD. they do the same things as we do, they get paid for it, they probably teach a bit more than we do and they probably have a bit more experience with this or that. they could be ideal, understanding, supportive partners! i don't see the point in ruling them all out "because there could be problems later on". if you are going to think like that, you can never start a serious relationship!
on the other hand, you did make me curious - what other complications are you worried about? is this person married? are you worried about publicly coming out as gay/straight? are YOU married? would your family or someone object, due to some characteristic of this person? hah--- a mistery!

Hi Shani,

Thanks for that. That point about similar problems with dating other PhD's is a good point. There are two couples amongst our group, and I can see how awkward it would be if they broke up, i.e., turning up at social events, using our research room, going to the same seminars etc. In some ways, it might be worse, as you have to deal with them daily.

I'll answer the other question in a moment.

Potential complication. I am gay. Said staff member, well, I don't know. All I can say is that things have been said which seem questionable, and that if the things they say/do were from somebody known to be gay, I swear I'd interpret it as wanting to get to know me better. There is far more to this than I'm prepared to say here. Said staff member does know I'm gay, it's fairly open in our small group, and never really been an issue. Potential for complications exist on their part.

Sorry, not trying to be mysterious, happy to say more off-board than on.

I think gay or straight is not the point here. In my opinion, I second everything Olivia has said. Everybody on here sounds so unprofessional. I never go to work socials, find excuses for not attending christmas parties, don't gossip and don't run into trouble. And still I see exactly all the stuff that is going on in my department, with the 60 year old married lecturer dating 18 year old students every single year and getting away with it despite being an open secret. I think such people are unprofessional. Dating at work brings nothing but trouble for the career, so if you can, try to stay out of it.

Even between Phd Students and Research Assistants, it's not what I would call a career-enhancing move.

I'm not sure if simply *having* the relationship constitutes unprofessional; rather, it's the way it is handled. Some of us are just trying to be realistic. When you spend a lot of time with a group, it's normal to develop an attraction. If acted on, then it needs to be dealt with in a mature fashion.

In other words, the game exists, many do it, many opportunities exist with long working hours on the increase, but three factors equally remain. First, the game stinks, second, no one is forced to attend all the social events, people get paid for work, not for socialising, third, nobody will move up the ranks if they just participate in this game. Those people who are CEOs or School Deans or Prime Ministers are "usually" (with exceptions) the ones which stayed away from this type of thing.

We all know that some Undergrad girls or boys like to flirt with young lecturers to get better marks. If said member of staff chooses to play along with it, he or she displays professional misconduct, in my opinion, and takes advantage of the position of power. If it's true love, this is still the case, in my opinion.

jouri, i don't really disagree. the only point is that in this case, the attraction is between two people who do not have any other relation except that they happen to be in the same department.

if they do get romantically engaged, and at a later stage they do get into a professional relationship, then they need to do something about it. but if they are open about the romantic relationship, the department should not let that situation arise, anyway. i.e. this lecturer should not be made responsible for any part of error404's studies.

I think Error is being fairly sensible about this.
I never expected to end up with a member of staff - in fact I had always thought that I would avoid a relationship with anyone during my PhD, as nothing would be more important to me than that. I would happily sacrifice aspects of my social life for three years in order to acheive what I wanted.
However (this is a big however), this is not a rational thing. You can't decide how you feel. You can decide to do, or not do something about it; but if you have relatively regular contact with someone on a purely social level (ie although you work in the same place you don't see each other), then it is normal to become close.
If you started dating someone who was a friend of a friend surely it would be just as awkward if you split up.

Has anyone thought how great this relationship could be if it lasted? I know the staff member I dated is the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. No-one can make me as happy (and as angry, frustrated, confused and every other emotion) as he does. If I had considered how every relationship would end before I started it, I would have been single forever!!!

A few points--of course my opinion is only that, my opinion and your mileage may vary, so its fine with me if you disagree. Its only opinions after all.

That said, I just do not ever, or perhaps only rarely, appropriate, think its appropriate to have those sorts of relationships in the workplace or in the department. Maybe across university lines, but I think it takes very mature and considered judgment to make this work.

Mature and considered judgment is a whole lot different than having an "attraction"--which I am sorry comes across as no more than "wanting to scratch that itch."

And I am not so sure that workplace has been the place to find partners--its only VERY recently that women began to work in great numbers outside of the home--the past 10-20 years. And do these relationships formed like this seem to work, or no? That is not to say all relationships or potential relationships should be sized up on whether they might fail or not, but, I think in one sense, it is smart to look at a potential partner and decide what you want--is it a fling, a scratch that itch move, or are you looking for something more substantial and lasting?

If its a fling, then all the more reason to take that urge out the door and down the road and not do it in your work/study place. If you are not meeting people outside of work, then DO something to create a circle of friends and acquaintences. Find new interests, take up a hobby, join an organisation of some sort, or do internet dating as someone suggested.

If it IS a substantial relationship, then both people involved should I would think have the judgment to take things at a reasonable pace and get to know each other in a way that does not create the potential problems of a fling or short lived passionate affair.

Values aside, I think the entire thing comes down to using judgment. Its not just about you, or the person you are involved with. Your actions start to impact others--your department, your workplace, your university, what have you, and the people who have to work there/study there. Can you and the other person conduct yourselves in such a way as to not disrupt the work/study of the place you are in? Can you maintain a professional relationship during work/study hours?

Its important to have clear personal boundaries. You may find yourself attracted to various people at various stages of life for reasons good and bad. Is the attraction self-destructive? If you are hungering after someone who is married/already in a relationship of some sort, ask yourself why? Its probably less to do with an attraction to that person, and more about making choices to locate unavailable partners.

I don't see a problem at all. We have two married couples in our department and they manage to leave domestic stuff at home.

Better to risk it and see what happens than regret a missed opportunity. You're not teenagers: you can be civilised even if it doesn't work out.