I'm not saying it can't be done but I really don't think research/lab and being a mum works out that great. I've see some extremes. My aunt was in a very male-dominated work-field and did very well for herself. They decided to have a baby after a few years of marriage and she ended up going on maternity leave and then not going back as her company relocated 150 miles away and as she would be on a managment level, the hours were too much. After the second one went to school, she retrained as a teacher and does that instead.

Some pharmaceutical companies now let their staff do part-time but it doesn't really work out that well for in lab stuff and then tend to have to do admin type jobs (seems really crap if you have spent 7 years at uni and then x number of years in your job).

I always felt that I couldn't wait to pop out a couple myself but more recently I've become very cynical. I'm not sure I want to lose my hard-earned career that I spent so long working on. I'm not interested in part time.

Out of my friends, I'm probably the most maternal and I know that they would be suprised if I ended up never having children.

Loads of people always say that there is never a right time to have kids, you just do it. I don't agree with that.

Just to clarify, I don't actually do 'lab' based research. I am at the computer analysis/statistics end of the spectrum, so am not so constrained by being in a lab at a certain time to get data.

I'm not either but I have done in the past.

I tried it, and my work was very lab based (it was in the basement too ) If you can work set hours then mabe it will work, anything else becomes a logistical nightmare, combining kids and long hours didn't work for me at any level, you may be luckier but it is very hard to have so many demands all of which are of equal importance. There are only the same number of hours available, they just have to be spread more thinly, which can mean that neither can be completed to your satisfaction. You could take a break, I did, but then found there were still no part time openings in my field, too male dominated for it to be seen as a necessity I'm afraid.

Just showed this thread to my boyfriend

He says if there's a message hidden in my showing this to him, I can forget about it and I have time to do two PhDs before sending "le" message again, lol. I guess this is what I get for being with someone who's quite a bit younger - not that I mind!

But about him giving up his career to take care of our kids one day, he says that MY career is more important than his, and that for as long as he works at Tesco's.

Gee, I love him

(Sorry if this hardly seems serious, he's just made me laugh so much, I wanted to share...)

awww, nadia, that's sweet.

my partner is the same age as me and just turned lecturer, but: he wants to have kids (i do too); and he does not want my career to suffer from it; so, he is the one worrying about how to cope with the "double burden" etc.

anyway i think it's important to keep in mind that not every science job is the same. there are huge differences as to how well careers can cope with a family break.

during my sociology degree i once looked at possible explanations for why there are gendered jobs - jobs that are done predominantly by men or predominantly by women. i came across one interesting observation which was that women tend consider the possibilities of combining family and career when choosing jobs/careers. that would point many women to jobs such as teachers, which would explain why there are many women teachers. however, importantly, when we chose our careers, we usually do not really know what it will actually be like - and we do not really know which jobs will permit us to combine family and career. thus, we need to base our decisions on assumptions. there are clues which help us in this. one clue is found in "role models", or simply, if we observe that there are many women doing a certain job, we get the impression (sometimes subconsciously) that this job is suitable for women - if there are many women doing a job, we assume that this job allows family/career balances.

if there are few women doing a job, we assume that it doesn't allow combining family time and careers.
sometimes this is quite true - sometimes not at all. some jobs would be highly compatible with family life, but we just assume they aren't, because there are few women in those jobs.
so, it is important to look beyond the surface. some science careers would indeed make it hard to take a few years off for a family break, as things move so fast that you would invariably lose track. other science jobs might in fact be ideal for combining with family phases. for example if you can work from home, or if there are on and off times for example seasonally, or if the job involves long-term experiments (say, 3 years) that need a little constant overlooking but only really come to a closure and analysis after those years, or simply if you are in an area that doesn't move as fast as some of the life sciences are doing now - why should it be a problem to take 2 years out?

of course you do still need an employer who will accomodate your needs. but what i'm saying is that before you consider a career change, you should look at the exact requirements of your career and figure out why exactly you are assuming that you can't take a family break. there might be good reasons. but there might simply be noboby out there who has done it before, but no real reason why it shouldn't work.

That's kind of why I'm asking this here. It would be a shame to give up on a career in science when it could work quite well. I just don't know who to ask. If I went to my supervisor and asked him whether women in science can have children/career break he would think I was nuts/assume I was about to drop a kid there and then.

I guess the other problem is I don't know who'll be employing me it's the right time. Maybe all universities/funding bodies are the same, I suspect not.

I see that the wellcome trust has 'returning to science' funding available, does anyone have experience of such schemes?

The other reason I may want a career break is that my husband, could get a position anywhere in the world for a few years. I just wish I had the flexibility, to say, for a few years, whilst we had young kids move to dubai (or wherever) do the whole mum/wife thing then still come back to my genetics career. I think this is too optimistic.

.........why can't we have everything?

I don't think it is possible to have everything at the same time, but you can have everything over a period of time. I've had some great jobs, and a great time with the kids, but I didn't go back to my original work, it just wasn't possible. If you are working in genetics, will you be able to keep up with the latest trends/techniques? There are few supermen, or superwomen about, and I expect they too have things they wold like to do, or things they regret not having done. If you can get back in, fine, if not diversify!

I am starting to feel like I personally just couldn't cope with an academic career and a family. I see how stressed my supervisor is and she doesn't get to spend much time with her kids. I don't want my life to be like that. I want to choose a job that I can do really well, and I think to be a really good academic I'd have to work night and day for the next 40 years! Really stressed with my PhD at the moment, starting to wonder why I ever started. I think that after I finish, a career change is needed.

I think it is very stressful to do both. I had my daughter at theend of my 2nd year, took 2 years out and I'm now in my last year. My funding was frozen for that time. Fortunately I am not lab-based as that really is tough.

I know quite a lot of mums in research and some seem to cope better than others. One friend and her partner were both tenured in a lab-based field when they had 2 kids. She takes all the school holidays as unpaid leave - apparently this is the kind of arrangement employers have to consider. Another friend in industry has gone back 3 days/week but now that she has a 2nd child the nursery fees for 2 children are so high she may not go back this time (she took 1 year maternity each time). Another lecturer friend is pregnant with her 3rd and planning to go back again 3 days/week after 6 months leave.

I am very anxious myself about what will happen after my PhD. My husband is very far along in his career and it is not feasable for him to go part-time or take a career break - he works long hours and travels. I don't want both of us to be working long hours and I'm not sure what that is going to mean. I want to be able to get my daughter from school 2 days/week for example. We are not able to have another child, but if we were, I really don't know how I would manage - although I know of other people who had 2 kids during their PhDs so it can be done.

I'm struggling because I'm not using enough childcare - only 3 days/week. I may have to increase that this year to submit, then I will take a break next year, aiming to start work when she starts school sep 09.