Equal opportunities...Just pretence!
mind you my husband is dyslexic and writing up at the mo and I have basically re-written the whole thing for him - I should be Dr Dr sneaks when its all done
Hmm.
Benm, facts first. I am (a) an international student (b) doing a completely UK based and UK focused PhD (c) do not get money from home for my work has nothing to do with there and (d) most importantly, am delighted to be researching with phenomenal people, at a phenomenal uni, in I think a phenomenal city and country :-)
Mind you also, I work every hour I can to pay my 13k quid tuition and living etc. I have two kind scholarships from my uni here which just about covered the mammoth tuition.
And from that position benm (doing UK focused work, and paying intl fees) I must disagree with you.
Back where I was born and raised, my uni had 2 French students and all rest were locals. Those guys paid 10 times more money for their degrees. Did the rest of us complain? Did we not think it natural for them to be charged more money? Did we find that racist? (to note, students from neighbouring countries with similar physcial atributes, since you raise the point, paid same fees like the rest of us did, but it was people from the West who had topay 10 times higher)
the point was, they 'could' and therefore they 'should'...at least that was the point in the college canteen, and other hang out zones.
Coming to my personal views on this (as a struggling intl student who does a UK based and completely UK focused phd):
1. UK *cannot* start to decide fees based on topics. Imagine the mess! They would be flooded with accusations of discrimination in interpretations etc etc.
2. The country cannot possibly subsidize for a student who does a UK focused phd and then one fine day 5 yrs later takes it away and leaves forever.
You cannot say that I am either a Brit, or a EU person, or studying my 'home' country, I am perhaps exactly where you are, an I think you need to re-think your arguments!
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I've just started a project that could benefit the entire world, so......where's my money? Eh? How about everyone coughs up a couple of quid and I'll actually do my research? That's fair, ain't it?
As a Social Sciences student (and I'm sure my arts & humanities brethren will back me up on this) saying that issues of funding are unfair is like saying that David Cameron is a lying slimey bag of s**t - everybody knows it.
What a ridiculous argument! For heaven's sake, did somebody drag this foreign research student kicking and screaming and drop them in the UK and force them to do their research here? I hope not - I thought that kind of behaviour died out many many years ago!
I have absolutely no idea how other countries fund their higher education, but, if it is a similar system to the UK where it is taxes that subsidise the fees, then if I were to choose to go elsewhere then I would certainly not expect for a second that my fees were subsidised - why on earth should they be? Going there would be my choice, and to be more precise I would have known that that was the case and made me decision knowing I would pay more than nationals and too right too! In the same way that if I chose to go to Bug's country, although I'm not French, I would expect to be paying 10 times more - MY choice!
At my uni there are quite literally thousands of international students - the people are up in arms enough as it is about funding British students, can you imagine what would happen to higher education if they were told that their taxes would then go to funding OS students too? Every foreign student I know has said that they knew the funding situation, but they also knew that this is where they wanted to study and so they will do what it takes
It is absolutely NOTHING to do with imperialism and everything to do with funding and finance and personal choice. IF foreign students were to be subsidised then you could be certain that the numbers accepted would plummet, the choice to come here would be removed because the country's coffers simply could not withstand the cost. Academic jobs would go, unis would shut - is that what you want? Its certainly not what I want!
Stressed,
You sound like a British politician.... :-) Could you be Cameron? As long as you are happy you've got no reason to worry. After all, the benefits fall on your side! THEY pay 10 times higher, I pay less! Isn't that your argument? Untill you eat something bitter, you can't know how bitter it is! Isn't it?:p
Hi Benm
Interesting debate, bit of a shame you don't seem to want to participate as such
Looking in my field (biological sciences) it appears that approximately 10% of the PhDs advertised on findaphd.com, the website that is attached to this forum stipulate that only UK nationals can apply to recieve the funding attached to the PhD project. The majority of PhD projects stipulate that any EU nationality can apply and recieve, whilst some projects are open to anyone from anywhere in the world (generally more than those open to UK nationals only). Now, I appreciate that other fields may be different, but I don't really see much truth in what you are saying in my case.
Another question i have, If you dislike the UK, and any lingering Imperialist tendancies that we may have, why don't you simply go and do research somewhere else?
I take this approach, I don't like the USA very much (nothing against individual people, i simply could not stand a country that does not have socialised healthcare) so I simply don't bother going there, problem solved.
Benm,
Instead of offering (a rather pathetic and unsubstantiated) insult to stressed, perhaps you should answer her questions: were you dragged kicking and screaming to research in the UK? If not, and if indeed other educational systems are superior to the UK's why did you choose here? If it is because of the nature of your research (on the British population) why did you find the British to be interesting, why not study the Swedes?
As an aside, I know a US PhD student who was fully funded in my dept at the (British) taxpayers expense - he is now off to teach in Pakistan. I also know my uni funds a number of South Asian students every year in a different department. So, no there is no racism/imperialism there: although I know how many unemployed people in this country (including my father) would feel if I told them that the tax they paid has gone to funding an international student £1000 a month (approx) when they get £64 a week to live on! As stressed noted, the govt don't subsidise many UK postgrads, nevermind OS students.
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Benm - I am not a politician, just a tax payer who is grown up enough to understand politics and finance. As I said before, IF I chose to go to another country then if I was paying more and not expecting to sponge of the tax payers of that country in their far superior education system, that would be just fine. If I didn't like it I wouldn't go. I wouldn't spend my time insulting the nationals, labelling them racist etc because of a policy that is in place and has been far longer than I had been in the country. I wouldn't expect them to make exceptions for me and my bit of student research that may in time possibly, maybe make a difference. I didn't pay into their system, I would most likely be going elsewhere in the world to pay taxes later, I would not expect them to pay for me.
BenM,
considering I am the only one here who is not one of your "them" (although I absolutely dislike this us/them that is getting into this), would you respond to my post as well? I would be interested in what you have to say.
For me, you cannot use, for instance the ;argely pointless insults you used for Stressed!
Bug, there is no them/us - we're all in this together sweetie :-) All students, all working damned hard to make ends meet, where we come from in the world makes no difference whatsoever - its a shame that finances have to affect higher education - but I guess that's life. What has made me so very angry is being labelled a racist and that 'I'm alright and sod the rest of you' when that is so not the case. The thing that amuses me is that I've done a quick check in my dept and the only people being funded are OS students! To be fair they are incredible students and bloody well deserve it, but it seems to make a bit of a mockery of argument here that our educational institutions and funding bodies are imperialist and racist!
