am so sorry to read this pineapple. i haven't read all the posts but what makes me angry is the way your life has been put on hold. am in that same boat. re passing.. at least the examiner didn't outright fail you and there is the opportunity to choose another though that pretty much wastes your time waiting for that other one to read your thesis. i wish they'd told you what to do to the thesis in the meantime so that you aren't just in limbo. (sorry if they already have i haven't read all the posts.)

eitherway.... am sure you'll get through this if i got through my horror of a viva. you will get through this. am glad you have a support network. that counts for everything.

J.

======= Date Modified 25 Mar 2011 09:30:13 =======
Thanks JoJo. I hope all is going well with your corrections!

I've gone from feeling really unhappy, very tearful and apathetic etc etc to feeling rather angry! It just feels like a complete waste of my time! I would have got myself a job if I had known this was going to happen.

External cancelled it 12 days before the viva because he felt my thesis was too long (120,000 words) and no other reason. I submitted in October 2010, so I've spent a long time working towards and psyching myself up for this viva. I'm desperately trying not to see this cancellation as anything more than an overly long thesis.

Examiners have around 3 months to read a thesis (according to my supervisors) so I'm looking at July or August for a new viva (they haven't found a new examiner yet). Knowing that I'll have this looming over my head for about 4 months until a new viva  and a year at the most to sort out corrections. I still don't know whether I'm going to pass this PhD in the end- I may end up with an MPhil after all this- which will probably finish me off! It will take around 6 years to finally finish this PhD or MPhil if they decide to fail me. Anyway, I'm going to focus on fighting for a PhD rather than an MPhil.

In short, I still feel like I've failed, I'm unemployed (but looking for work) and I'm surrounded by family members who keep telling me that this is my fault for submitting an overly long thesis (and I can see their point).

Thanks for the all the replies. It's very helpful to read different interpretations of this devastating news and these responses are helping me cope with this. Thanks for the continued support. I really appreciate it. I'm feeling a little better today. I'm concentrating on finding a new job and staying clear out of unhelpful and unsupportive family members and generally trying to distract myself from negative thinking.
:-)

Sorry I've not read the replies so sorry if I'm repeating what others have said... but to be honest I'm a bit shocked by all of this. It's your supervisors responsibility to ensure that you don't hand in something that may fail, they should have been going through and deleting sections, asking you to re-write bits. My sup. took 6k words out of mine in one foul swoop! And this was me working up until the deadline too... I wrote my discussion chapter in the week up until submission! So you shouldn't be blaming yourself so much. And second, if the content is good and you can defend what you've done, even point out it's weaknesses (one being the length), there's no reason to fail the viva based on word count. The new external may not even notice. Honestly, what difference does is make if it is 250 or 350 pages in reality - it's still a massive task to read it!

======= Date Modified 28 Mar 2011 13:34:07 =======
Re-reading the letter and my supervisors emails, it appears that the faulty lead recommended that my supervisors identify an external examiner asap. I'm trying to view this as a positive sign- surely they would not consider finding another external examiner and recommend I downgrade to an MPhil if it was a question of thesis quality?! Assuming they are finding a replacement, would my uni go through all this effort to find a replacement examiner if there was a strong possibility of an MPhil/PhD fail?

Having said that, what's troubling me is the unpredictability of PhD vivas and that even after all this I could still receive an MPhil if this new external examiner decides to fail me :-(  My thesis was heavily linked with my ex-external examiners work so it's doubly disappointing that he's rejected it on the basis of being too long. It's clear from the letter that we cannot approach the previous external examiner again- even if I sent a resubmitted draft for examination.

For the moment anyway, I'm putting this PhD behind me- as I've really had enough of the above :$ I'm literally drained from this whole process and I feel like I'm in a never-ending state of limbo. I'm extremely tired and I keep falling asleep :-( . Perhaps this is my body way of venting out all this emotional build up or emotional residue prior to my original viva date or perhaps even a sign of depression. I feel really sad that I could have had my viva this week on Friday if it wasn't for this cancellation. I would have some level of closure at the very least, even if it was a PhD fail/MPhil.

Given they all hold PhDs, they must realize how disappointing this is for me! :-( or for any PhD student! Perhaps my uni also feel let down by this whole process- given amount of supervision over the last 4.5 years and considering that my PhD was a very well paid scholarship (in contrast to all the other studentships in my department). Anyway, my motivation is literally on the floor and it feels like I've mentally given up on this PhD already (which I'm keeping to myself at the moment, excluding posting on this anonymous forum). I have an annoying little voice inside me that's urging me to push on and not quit, which for the moment anyway, is stopping me from quitting.

In the meantime, I'm focusing on my professional doctorate/ psychology practitioner applications for Sept 2011 entry and continuing my search for psychology research assistant jobs (ignoring research associate positions). There seems to be a very good chance I could get onto one of these practitioner doctoral programmes to enable to use my psychology training skills into use. In putting this PhD behind me, I'm feeling excited about gaining stage 2 so I can become a chartered psychologist! ;-) There are other opportunities available for me and a life beyond this PhD which is such a positive and uplifting thought! :p

it seems like a bizarre predicament. I very very much doubt that it will be an Mphil or fail - I mean people get downgraded to an Mphil when the quality or quantity is just not there for a PhD. That is clearly not the case with your thesis!

I suspect the external had a holiday planned or something, didn't have enough time to read it etc. and doesn't realise the amount of chaos created by this decision.

I'd much rather have a lengthier thesis than a shorter one - the amendments would just be 'delete this section' rather than 'spend 6 months writing xyz'.

I can imagine the horrible draining feeling of just waiting, I can only advise concentrating on something utterly silly for a few days e.g. playing a computer game or something :-)

I totally agree with Sneaks. Quite often organization is not the best skill of academics. My sup said he would take three weeks to read the final draft of my thesis, but after a month he didn't even manage half of it. So I wouldn't take your former external' s behaviour as linked to the quality of your thesis at all. But I understand how you feel. It's the uncertainty of the final result that is really nerve-wrecking, and I feel very much the same, although I didn't submit yet.
However, you do have something job-wise to look forward to, and it will help you to focus on more positive thoughts. Keep us informed! ;-)

I have heard of cancellations happening before. When I was post doc-ing there were three separate occasions.

The first was because the examiner became extremely unwell and, in the end, had to completely leave his post as a senior lecturer. This was really sad for all involved, as he was a much loved in the academic community. The PhDer was slightly inconvenienced, but totally understood and sympathised. It was all handled really smoothly and they vivaed just month or two later.

The second case was it was cancelled because the candidate was in no way ready to really submit but had gone against my old PI and submitted it despite repeated concerns being raised. I had read the draft thesis and it was, to be brutally honest, incoherent and sloppy. The external cancelled it in advance, because otherwise they would have to have failed it outright, but there were a few discussions behind closed doors which led to this. The only reason I ever found out about this was because my PI was away for a while and I had to step into his shoes for a bit, so was privy to some emails that I would have otherwise been completely oblivious to. I don't know what happened in the end for that candidate, but they were still redrafting by the time I left the team.

The third case seemed the most shocking, as it was the external not at all taking his responsibilities seriously and booking a holiday at the wrong time. This angered the whole team, which was quite a feat considering we had been through quite a bit of drama during that time already.

In summary, although infrequent, this sort of thing does happen, and it won't be the last time.

======= Date Modified 29 Mar 2011 01:28:28 =======
Thanks everyone. Apologies, I can't sleep :$

Thanks for sharing your experiences of viva cancellations Badhaircut. I can only hope I'm not in the same boat as the student in your second example. :$ All I know is that this cancellation was due to length of thesis rather than a poor quality thesis- unless my university and supervisory team are telling me something different :-( (down)

Due to ESRC restrictions and extreme pressure to submit,  I was forced to submit before I had a chance to cut my PhD into the word limit, so I know there's a risk of substandard thesis comments-which is why I keep coming back to the MPhil issue. I can only hope my examiners recognise the potential with my work and recognise the work included in this thesis- ie 4 lengthy result chapters, 2 content analyses of 6 peer reviewed journals, directory of UK services to encourage future research and an introduction of new tools. All I want is the opportunity to resubmit for a PhD and fix the shortcomings of my thesis- and I'm prepared to fight for it if needs be (seem to be regaining some fighting and determination spirit!) I know exactly where to cut, I know what my contribution to knowledge is and I also know where my work fits in within the wider context. I've also very sensitive to the errors I've made throughout and I know where my weaknesses exist. Equally, I know the strengths of my work in relation to other peoples work- including my ex-external examiner.

Anyway, I need to remain positive and I need to try and work on diminishing this never-ending self depreciating battle that has occurred throughout this PhD journey. Roll on life beyond this PhD nightmare! ;-) Congratulations to those of you who recently passed! Also, to pre-PhD viva candidates, I'm sure my PhD journey is a rare exception. Most people get through without all these dramas along the way!

I'm sure it isn't as bad as you think. What have your supervisors said? Have you asked them these questions straight out?

Hello :)

Thanks for your post

I've received one email since the cancellation and they said there's nothing I can do right now, but wait. They will let me know when they've found a new examiner. Their trying to find a replacement examiner asap.

I've had enough to be honest! :$

Are you getting professional help to cope with the waiting stress? Have you spoken to the university counsellors?

It does sound as though all you can do is wait. No magic wand can be waved to make your viva happen immediately. So you have to be patient. I know you've been waiting a long time, but is it really so hard to wait that bit longer? You are looking for work at the same time, so are doing something productive in that vein.

Walking away might seem easy, but that really would be the end of your PhD. It's only by sticking it out to the end that you have a chance of succeeding. If you walk away you're guaranteed to fail. Do you want that?

If you haven't seen your university counsellors yet please arrange to do so ASAP. Phone them tomorrow. That's a very productive thing to do, and they may help you with coping strategies. And university counselling is free and - most importantly - confidential.

======= Date Modified 27 Apr 2011 18:51:53 =======
Hello everyone.....

Just keeping everyone updated. They've found a new external examiner who has kindly agreed to mark my lengthy thesis in short notice. My new viva will take place in June- which gives me some more time to prepare.

I feel a little better (after lots of tears, despair and general feelings of apathy and disappointment and speaking with mental health professionals). I can only hope they won't cancel this viva and if it does take place, allow me to resubmit for a PhD rather than an MPhil. Goodness, leaving with an MPhil/PhD fail will just put the nail in the coffin with this rollercoaster journey! Anyway, I'm trying not to think of the worst possible outcome here and put all my energies into passing this damn thing.

In my head I've virtually given up on this PhD, but this news has sparked a new level of motivation to finish this once and for all.

Anyway, I think this is good news and wanted to share with other PhDers who understand this whole process!

Hi Pineapple, I know I haven't commented on this thread yet but I have been following it, and really feeling for you.

Thanks for updating, and I'm really pleased that you have another viva date to prepare for, I shouldn't think they'll cancel it again. I'm also pleased you're speaking to professionals about how you are feeling, I had three months of counselling at the end of last year and it really helped me, hopefully it won't come to that for you though.

Take care of yourself and good luck with the viva prep, try to maintain that motivation and have some positive thoughts.

Nxx

This is great news Pineapple29! And your new date for the viva looks very reasonable.
You definitely have a lot of positive stuff to think about. Thank you for letting us know and keep us posted.

I should have my viva in summer too, and I am getting slightly concerned...but reading other people's experiences in the forum is very good, as I feel less lonley.

Good luck!
(up)

Thats great news Pineapple! At least the external is fully aware of the length of the thesis so the viva should go ahead for June. I may be having mine at about the same time, although I have yet to get a date. I am glad that you have seeked some counselling help as you must have been under huge amounts of stress and a magnitude of other feelings, I really hope this will help you to succeed.

Good luck with the viva prep (up)