Referring to an old article, doing a phd means you kind of get locked in 'The Ivory Tower' and all the isolation and uncertainty it brings. For me that isolation was made worse because i was socially inept- the 'outside world', normal job, friend, was, and is, a complete mystery to me. When this happens you want to hide behind your books even more.

It is a relief to see that others here feel like I have - Angie, I see exactly where you're coming from. For me, academic pursuits were something I could excel at when at school, which wasn't a happy time for me. To have that "refuge" threatened isn't nice at all.

As for support services- when I began my phd, i had a vague idea of how tough it would be (there was a class on it) but the general consensus for me was 'but you are a good student, you will be just fine'. And that was it. These classes do tell you that it is going to be difficult- but they never give any suggestions on how to deal with it- other than 'stick at it, it will be an exciting time of discovery and growth'. They never talk about counselling, support,forums etc- there is just this assumption that 'you've got this far, you'll be fine'

I think there IS a culture (especially from supervisors) that views the PhD as a "rite of passage", an excercise that is treated as "oh, yes it's hard, but you know that's the nature of the beast, you just need to get on with it". I have heard several stories from others about mental health problems during a PhD. I suspect that prevalence is very high and cannot help but wonder how drop out rates link to this. We often read about other factors in drop out rates for PhDs, such as funding problems or part time study, but it's as though the mental health issues are hush hush.

Isn't it roughly 50% of people who drop out of doctoral study? If this happened in the UKs undergrad population, I'm sure there would be a political inquiry. But I think there an ideology that underpins postgrad work as "oh well, it's hard, that's par for the course."
If a PhD causes mental distresses though, these difficulties should be addressed by the academic system, rather than swept under the carpet as a "standard expectation of a doctorate".

Angie,
I think you are very brave/honest to recognize your own personality. I feel many PhD students fit in your profile. Many people go school nonstop, postdoc and so on just because they feel not very "adequate" for a job outside academia. I personally think it is not a good idea and some seek refuge in the lab/books and the prestige of a PhD title

Maybe we DO need a political inquiry into our working practices? Also more research into mental health in postgrads? (Thinking of potential grant application here).

I have also started questioning the prestige issues. When people ask me "Dr Badhaircut huh? What is your area of practice?", their faces usually fall when I say "Uh, I am a PhD, not a medical doctor".

This is usually followed by "So you arent a real doctor?".

Grrr.

For me its the insecurity of it all, and not being able to fight back- knowing you need your supervisor to choose a good examiner for your viva (they're going to try to fail our other Phd by finding a difficult external). Being told that you are: a waste of money, lab space and time; that I didn't show enough gratitude .... all that other nonsense. Always smiling and keeping friendly on the outside.

Now I've passed the viva- and it still continues: my supervisor said I shouldn't put her down as a reference, and that she wouldn't have help me complete my PhD if she had known I was thinking of doing a PostDoc. By being friendly I've managed to convince her to write me a reference, sort of. Down the line of: Marvelous at lab work, very percice in executing experiments, will need extensive supervision, can't work independently.

Some pressure during our PhDs help mould us into suitable people to be lecturers or post-docs. Both of whom get a crap experience too.

As Badhaircut said before, the system stinks. Research is so poorly funded and undervalued by Government, who just treat universities as vehicles to bring in international funding.

Having a PhD is so undervalued by UK society/industry and this comes down from Government. Being able to kick a football around or sing "Grease Lightning" is so much more valuable to society than quantum physics - right? We're all doomed

I would also like to add that the academic community is very small (compared to other professions) and thus very competitive, which can be a problem especially for fainthearted individuals when they are up against more confident and, dare I say 'ruthless' students, vying for the same things- so again depression, insecurity sets in.

As for mental health problems being swept under the carpet by supervisors, I agree- but it is like that in every profession, where you have to keep quiet about it.

This is such an interesting thread- Remember to add all this in your book kronkodile

I totally agree with almost everything I read for this thread. I can really relate with most of you. I trully believe PhD students do not get enough support from their departments or other academics. Most departments believe they provide sufficient support by giving a desk, a chair and a PC. The mental health of the students is completely ignored. During the first week, I remeber going to talks about Use of Labs, Safety issues blah blah blah.. none of which I reallty need right now! And yes, for some reason most academics/supervisors completely forget what it was like doing a PhD... maybe they choose to block out and erase all the horrid memories!!

Yes, it is a very interesting post.
Im not sure if lack of support is the problem. The problem is the system itself. And the problem is also many people who get into the system without having a clue of how it works. Many people stand it and get the PhD done but everything has a cost. Some people even enjoy it and seem to be having the best years. An analogy: back in the middle ages, many people survived, many more perished in horrible ways and a few ones got the best out of it. But it doesn't mean the brutal feudal system was ok and I can not imagine a serious, cultured person saying "oh, yes, middle ages where obscure and cruel, but that is the way it should be".

I can see a few ways that this could be potentially remedied.

1) Restrict the number of PhDs given out so there isnt a glut.
2) "Vocationalise" as much of the PhD as possible so that there are transferable skills that are recognised (e.g. certificates for stats, bio lab skills, writing, research etc)
3) Limit the number of PhD students a supervisor can have which could mean a) supervisors can concentrate on their students properly, b) that postdocs have more chance to be hired to work on projects, rather than discard them and exploit "fresh meat" to the grinder.
4) Raise awareness that leaving academia isnt "failure" and highlight routes to industry.

I think alot of the problems come from the position postgraduate students are in, they are in the middle of the system, they are neither staff in the university nor part of the undergraduate system.
As a result we are often overlooked, this is also not helped by the fact that much of our work is done in isolation and there isn't really a body that represents us either within the university or beyond

...As a result of there being no representitive body for PhD students the incoming PhD students don't know what to expect and nothing ever changes. I think if the university had a society/ some body that represented PhD students properly I don't think there would be so many problems