======= Date Modified 10 Jul 2011 12:35:39 =======

Sorry, KB, I was being ironic! I should have put a sarky smiley next to it! xx
;-)

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php

As usual, PhD comics gets it right about the whole PhD experience, and somehow this seemed very fitting to this thread!

That's a good one Olivia and so true! Thanks for cheering up my day! ;-)

I'm certainly not promoting a simple solution, neither do I have a naive view of life. I'm not diminishing the agonies of depression a clinical illness, or saying that people should not share their emotions but really 'hatred'? rather than 'frustration' 'exhaustion' and 'being overwhelmed with anxiety' which seem to me to be entirely appropriate emotions during a very challenging task. I feel that 'hatred' damages us and our relationships with others and our view of the world, so if this invades any process it surely cannot be a good thing. These days too often I hear young people and children stating loudly and often how much they 'hate' this and that, friends 'hate' their jobs, partners, house, life, how they look, their boss, their neighbours, bits of their body, friends, the daily commute, strangers on websites like mums net 'hate' individuals they've never met and practices they have little real knowledge of and contexts that are far outside their experience. My vote is for a world where 'hate' is a rarely used word, and a rarely felt emotion. Simple possibly.  

I wouldn't let it worry you snowdrops - people can be very emotive when venting. Plus, I hated my old supervisor, and rightly so - I don't any more, but hating her did me the world of good, and I dare say 'hating' on here is benefiting a lot of other people. If it's not the way you do things then congrats on finding something you think is much better.

Olivia: Amen!
That was a good laugh!

Snow, we all want to minimize agression around us. The thing is, no one is in a position to tell when an emotion is appropriate. You can have an appropriate or inappropriate behavior or reaction, but emotion? I think it's more complicated, and I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that. It just sounds strange (to me) to have an appropriate emotion. Under what circumstances are you SUPPOSED to feel X and Y? How do you tell when your feeling is appropriate? Do you beat yourself up if you have an inappropriate emotion? Who decides whether your emotion is appropriate?

If you really think about it, prolonged exhaustion and frustration may lead to hate (and many other possible emotions, apathy among them). These are not buckets where you can put frustration in one, exhaustion in another, etc...Feelings are a continuum, in my opinion. We go through different phases, we can't box what we feel.

Don't get me wrong, I *think* I got your point. We want to be caring and nurturing of others (like poor, sleepless phd students). We just have different ways of manifesting them. I understand what you are trying to say, and I think it's a really really good point. Just one thing, in my opinion, I would be careful with your wording, like in the quote....it can come across as self-righteous.

That's just my opinion. I see the value of what you're trying to say, really. Just give some people breathing space. You probably grieved during the downturns in your life. Let the others grieve for theirs.

I mean no harm, just saying my 2 cents.'(mince)

Interesting replies, I'm certainly not meaning any self righteous stuff at all....in fact that's the last of my intentions here. Re emotions on a continuum I can at least challenge that, in the true spirit of academic writing ( all very new to me) shame and guilt are distinct emotions according to research findings and not on the same continuum although remorse sits on a continuum with guilt. There I'm starting to be able to defend a position in an academic manner, although I still want to defend the anti hate position in a non academic manner, hate leads to pain and suffering and I will always challenge it.
Anyway I've enjoyed the debate everyone and thank you for embracing these ideas, or indeed challenging them. I hope truly that the forum will be to turn at moments of frustration, and that I can report on how I feel after 4 years if I indeed live that long! Peace and happiness to all.

Haha, no worries- my head is all over the place in the last few weeks of my write-up so I didn't pick up on it!

Snow- I think people do use 'hate' to mean very different things. I know what you mean, true 'hate' is a very strong feeling and takes up an awful lot of energy, but I guess we all use it a lot to refer to the weather, public transport, or whatever else is hacking us off at that moment, without really feeling genuine 'hate'! Anyway- a good discussion point! Best, KB

I agree KB and Snowdrops that 'hate' is a very strong and rare emotion, but I had it for my old supervisor - and justifiably so. I think hate and anger are incredibly useful emotions - if we hadn't hated hitler back in the 1940s we'd now be in terrible stew, I'm sure. Each to their own. We don't generally come here for academic chats, more emotional ones... it's a space for support and to say all the things you can't in the 'real' world.

I agree with KB that genuine hate is very tiring and emotionally draining/demanding so it's probably an over used word to describe our frustration with things. I found it was too tiring to hate my supervisor and very unproductive so it just gave way to apathy mixed with frustration! I guess it was just my way of dealing with it and channelling my energy towards my research instead!

I don't think that this forum is exactly representative of PhDs anyway. Most people will post on a forum if they are having a problem - hence lots of negativity. It's rare someone who has never posted will want to start a thread on how great everything is, and even if you have posted before you probably don't want to rub in your success when others are saying they are having a hard time. Secondly, when people say "hate" that doesn't necessarily mean that they do truly "hate" it. Hate is just a nice short and easy to spell word that may over exaggerate but gets the point across. Thirdly, as some have said, some people aren't doing a PhD because it's what they always wanted to do, some just stumbled into it, others couldn't find another job and it's better than being unemployed. Hence they could "hate" it as much as anyone hates any job (and you hear "I hate my job" a lot). Yes people should quit if they truly hate it, but that's not easy without a job to go to or if you're 2.5 years in when you start hating it!

In all, I agree with your basic point that people shouldn't "hate" because it's very negative and doesn't really help anyone (very good advice in fact), but to be honest I think this board is unrepresentative of PhDs and the people that say "hate" don't always mean it anyway, so don't worry about it too much!

This has been a very interesting discussion, which has developed from what appears to be a matter of semantics!