Quote From TreeofLife:
I don't think people should be prevented from getting qualifications just because they won't be able to use them directly afterwards.
Of course you don't want to discourage people, but there will be a point at which Universities can't compete with the private sector anymore. When the brightest people are not even thinking about getting into academia because of this job-roulette. We have to stop treating symptoms. There are so many programs now that try to make post docs attractive for positions that have nothing to do with their actual expertise (science, not even just the subject of your PhD) instead of thinking about why we have so many highly educated people we have no use for. Of course these people are now there and you can't fail them but I have the feeling that this is getting the new normal.
Quote From TreeofLife:
I think that actually what needs to happen is that students are told very clearly their chances of an academic career before applying for a PhD, so that only those that seek an academic career will do a PhD, or those that just want to do one for personal reasons. And/or the benefits/skills/personal attributes that a PhD holder offers need to clearly highlighted to employers, so that they are an advantage rather than a hindrance. And obviously science needs more money, because then it can afford to pay experienced scientists rather than taking on PhDs and postdocs as cheap labour and then there would be more permanent jobs available.
I basically agree but would say that it is already too late when it comes to the PhD decision. In Germany for instance there are not a lot of things you can do with a masters in chemistry or biology. So in that case it is not just a problem of too many post docs but generally too many people in a certain subject.
The last part is true. I never understood why you have to leave after a certain amount of time even though your boss is happy with your work. Highly inefficient. We have some people in the department who are here for 30 years now (something like permanent post docs without teaching) and they acquired so much knowledge in this area. If you struggle or hit any obstacles they are the ones you talk to. Why hiring a new post doc every 2 years, introduce them to techniques, let them read all the literature, while you let the person that already knows all that stuff go just for the sake of people-rotation. Just make it a normal job. If the boss is happy with your performance you stay, if not, he can hire someone else. But you would have to change the whole system for that...not going to happen
