"It's an interesting career path isn't it... I can't really think of anything else like it. Pilot maybe? But even they get to live in one place!"

Since when is that complaining?

I love moving around and with very few commitments am able to do so easily.

However, it is a disadvantage for (dare I say most?) people, who in fact want to settle in one place. What is the problem with people raising their concerns, or even COMPLAINING as you put it? (Oh, what dreadful sin is THIS).

Maybe talking about things is how progress can start to happen.

That is absolutely in line with what I said. Your career is your personal choice. You can find a partner, start a family life and find a decent place to live almost everywhere. All of my superiors have families. If you want all of this in a specific place in the country you were born in then you should have thought about a career in a field that offers a lot of employment opportunities everywhere. This is not only an academia problem. Try to find a job after graduating with a political science degree or sociology. If you are not lucky you probably have to relocate because there are just not many jobs in these fields. Why should that be different in academia? Alternatively you can just do it like Treeoflife said and try to get a job that's maybe not first choice, but allows you to live the private life you want to live.

If you are exceptionally good and successful you often have the chance to stay in a certain area. You find enough people who ended up being a lecturer at the University they studied. The sad truth is that most of us are just not good enough. This is a minority. The vast majority is just mediocre. You may do a satisfying job but you are not outstanding, you are not changing the field with top notch publications. Generally nobody dictates that you need to give up those things. Relocation is just the logical consequence if you are not competitive enough and can't land a job nearby. This applies to all sectors where there is a massive mismatch between graduates and job opportunities. There are tons of other professions were people have to relocate because they can't find a job.

I understand the frustration and it is not that I can't relate to it but so many people are acting as if these conditions were something unexpected. I know that I would not like to spent substantial amount of my time waiting for the flight back to e.g. England, so a career as a pilot would be definitely not for me, even though I may really enjoy flying a plane. I know that this is maybe not the best example but I think you get what I mean. Why taking a career path that is known to make relocations likely if you don't want to? I have friends at home that are the same age and own a flat, have two cars, thinking about kids and have started jobs after their bachelor degrees, while I am still living with roommates and am probably in my 30s until I know if I can land a job. But that was my decision. I could have had the same thing if I wanted. Could still live in that 100km range, near to my family and friends. If you want something stable then search for a career that at least promises something stable.

Jesus ;) Don't get so caught up with the "complain". I phrased it poorly and should not have cited your post, as this was more a general statement referring to the issue. All I wanted to say is that people should take some responsibility for the choices they made. Everybody who knows a little bit about academia knows that is like that and what you can expect. We all decided to still take the risk. If you are not fine with that, don't start a career in academia.

What kind of progress do you expect? That they offer ten times more positions in academia so that everybody finds a job in the location they want to stay? If you are educating more academics than you can employ, this is the logical consequence. Get rid of 80% of the PhD students and you have to move around to a lesser extent. There is no solution because there is no real underlying problem. This is what happens in every job sector when there are way more applicants than positions. Working conditions are getting worse, salaries are getting lower, contracts getting shorter...employers simply have more pull. Of course this is kind of worse in academia as special rules apply (at least in Germany) but how does it help me to get for instance a 3 year contract instead of three 1-year contracts? To plan your life you need a non-temporary contract and most of us will never get one. More tenure track positions or some permanent post doc positions are just a drop in the ocean. That will not help us. A society only needs a certain amount of highly educated researchers so most of us will probably make the same choice as Treeoflife and just try to find a job (even if its second or third choice) that is acceptable and allows us to stay with our partners, kids and families ;)

I think when you use words like 'complaining', 'poor choices' and 'what did you expect?', you introduce an unnecessary level of combat into something that was an interesting discussion about people's thoughts about their careers. It should be possible to discuss the pros/cons of trying to remain in academia without the conversation escalating like this.

Apologies to the OP - hope we can get back to sharing our thoughts and plans!

Didn't want to escalate things ;) Sorry for that!

well well...this thread took a slight diversion didn't it.

It's true - we all have to stand by our decisions, and ultimately, we do. But surely we are still able to vent frustrations as and when we come across obstacles? particularly unforeseen obstacles. I would be interested to hear your opinions on it all as you near the end of your PhD Dunham.

Three cheers for mediocrity - may it be the key to all future job offers.

I wasn't complaining in my post -just musing! I am a mature student and I have a lot of family responsibilities (to children and elderly relatives) so any job that I do has to realistically be in this geographical area. I realise that this drastically reduces my chances of following an academic career but for now, my career comes second to my family. My husband does have a successful academic career - but he wisely did his PhD straight out of university when he was young, free and single!

It is an interesting topic. Back to my muse on the matter... I honestly can't think of another career that is like it in terms of the things we've been talking about. But there must be something comparable! Movie star?! : D

it's a complicated one, this one.

i do actually know people who stayed at the same university from undergrad through phd to teaching fellowship/(short) postdoc/lecturer. rare, but not impossible.

it's problematic to accept the negatives of something that we chose to do as just somehow a given, without reflecting, questioning the political/social circumstances. especially since a lot of employment rights got lost in recent years.

it's an age thing as well, moving is easier to accept when young, once you get older it's a different kind of animal. chickpea is entirely right, to have an ordinary normal life in a modicum of comfort and security is not a crazy thing to ask.

i did well in my viva btw, not sure it was 'outstanding', but it was conveyed to me that my thesis was certainly better than 'mediocre'. this of course did not lead to an improvement of jobprospects (me= outside stem), maybe only indirectly in the opening of nice avenues for publishing. but i too decided to opt for a life outside academia, simply because i - we - are all worth more than being burned out/having our health, research ruined by all this insecurity. it's simply not worth it when the rest of one's life suffers that much.

maybe one day the powers that be wake up and change conditions (i can dream, right?), after all there are already problems with teacher recruitment, the junior doctors aren't happy, maybe in the long run a change in how we think about work could be effected, whether it really has to be the way it is, vision, phantasy, utopia....

the often rehearsed argument that there are too many phd students is questionable. there's certainly enough work, overworked staff (and more students), hence all those short term contracts/volunteer positions/internships/ what have you, but people don't want to pay for it, paying properly in nice employment conditions. especially the english don't know what to do with their smart people, some other countries have more options for educated folks.