Just a warning to other PhD mums... if you are breastfeeding and so can only take the mini pill BE REALLY CAREFUL! (Baby number 2 is going to be weaned much earlier so I can take the normal pill!)

"I would not tell your supervisor that it was planned. Start your PhD, get your experiments up and running and after the lab work (which you might not be allowed to do when you are pregnant).".

I might have got the wrong end of the stick here, so apologies in advance if I have, but Oz, what you seem to be suggesting looks pretty irresponsible to me. A PhD is not like a job: in a job you may be working there for 10+ years, and so you may as well take time out at your convenience to have a baby. But a PhD is a short term contract where a lot of people are depending on you to complete within a certain time. I think if you deliberatly get pregnant during a PhD you have let down your supervisor, your sponsor, and the other applicants who were rejected in favour of you.

I can see your argument Juno, but it’s not just the PhD that presents this dilemma. When it comes to longevity of employment, a PhD IS (unfortunately) like a job. Temporary contracts are the norm rather than the exception, and not just in academia. Most research contracts, whether they are a PhD studentship or a research associate/fellow/postdoc are given time limits. Jobs where one “may be working there for 10+ years, and so may as well take time out at [their] convenience to have a baby” are simply not available post PhD, especially in academia. The luxury of deciding to start a family at a convenient time, to oneself or to anyone else, is not an option that readily presents itself.

So it’s not always a simple matter of waiting for 3 years, it can turn out to be even longer. And if you’re a certain age and want children, those years can be too long in fertility terms.

Personally, I think trying having a baby during a PhD is a preferable option. A PhD student does not have the same contractual obligations as a member of staff, and can therefore have more flexibility in terms of childcare, hours worked, etc. And one more thing – if a person has been competitively selected for a PhD, the simple fact is they’re deemed the best person to do it. If I wanted to make sure a project was well-executed, I would rather it take longer to accommodate the best candidate's pregnancy break. I certainly wouldn't think wistfully about other candidates or think it was unfair on them. Granted, they might not have needed the extra time, but they simply wouldn't have been as good.

I am with Oz here - I wouldn't announce intentions to try for a baby whilst studying for a PhD. Not for fear of discrimination but simply because no matter what I did in life or work, a decision to start a family would be absolutely no one else's business but mine and my partner's.

See your point about the temporary contracts: they do make life difficult. But I totally disagree about your last statement: it is not just you and your partner that are affected if you decide to have a baby in the middle of a PhD. You don't live on a desert island: your actions will inevitably affect the society that you live in and the people around you. I still think that it is selfish to not wait three years till the end of your PhD. If you really can't live without having a baby, then stand aside and let someone else have the opportunity.

I am still referring to planned pregnancies here, by the way: of course an accidental pregnancy is a different kettle of fish altogether.

And on a slightly different note: you could always adopt if you feel that you may be getting past the best age to become pregnant. There are hundreds of kids in drab care homes desperate for a good family.

juno, perhaps I am misunderstanding (don't take it the wrong way please). it seems to me you are, bottom line, saying that women should chose between either babies or academic careers. because it would be selfish to want both, when other women would be prepared to decide against babies if that means they can do a faster PhD?
how do you feel if it is an unfunded PhD - does that earn you the right to have a baby when you want to? (except that you can't afford to)

(just because waiting three years is in many cases simply not an option, it's now or never; and because having a baby after the PhD is just the same as during the PhD, really... either you're unfunded/unemployed and can thus do as you like, or you got that post-doc fellowship which is short-term, other people depend on you, other people would have liked to get it, and you selfishly take it on just to then become pregnant...)

i personally like the idea of adoption. it is not so easy though!

try adopting while being a PhD student without a settled financial situation. there are also long waiting lists - there are far more prospective adoptive parents than "available" children, except if you chose to do it the illegal way. adoption agencies will cost you a lot of money. and they will likely intrude into your personal lives, judge your living situation according to their standards.

adoption also often means waiting on short notice for several years. during these years you have to be constantly (every day, no holidays) ready to leave for several weeks to a foreign country, on an instant's notice if a child becomes "available". you gotta have an employer who is ok with that!

Hi Shani,

My point is only this: that you should (preferably) wait till after your PhD. Then of course it's up to you, and of course many women are both academics and parents. It's just a matter of timing. I think for many reasons it is silly to get pregnant in the middle of your education.

A while ago there was a discusion on this forum about interviewing male vs female candidates for an academic post, and I was shocked to hear a number of forum members say that they would choose a male over a female candidate, if they were both equally qualified. The reasons given were that the female would be more likely to take time out to have a baby. It is women who do just that, who make it more difficult for the rest of us to compete against men for PhD positions.

So if a woman waits until after her phd, is it also selfish to have a baby during the postdoc? or the one after that? when is the best time then? surely it is worse when finally you get a lectureship because then you have the most responsibility?

I think the problem for one is age and it is easy in a way if you have been through the English system where you can have your BSc with 22 and then with 25 you are done with your PhD. Apart from that we did not plan for the baby because I know it is going to be difficult, I did not finish my degree till I was 27 and I went the quickest way possible + 1 year because I had to work to finace my studies from starting school to finishing for my subject. Until I have finished my PhD I will be ober 30 and then you get 1 year Postdoc contracts where you really should not get pregnant and then I am getting a bit old.

... continued
and on the other hand I will only take 6-8 weeks off, then the baby goes into day care. These weeks will be my holiday for the three weeks as I get no money what so ever for being on maternity leave. Looking around what a lot of PhD students do the whole day (me included at the moment) these weeks are "wasted" by surfing the internet, having a hang over, chatting, playing games etc... I on the other ahnd and I think I speek for a lot of parents I know need to be extra fast as everybody otherwise complains. So my PhD will not be longer than normal, I don't get money anyway and I was simply the best candidate for the job so why should I not do it?
Don't want to offend anyone but I am really angry as everyone apart from my supervisors tells me to quit as I won't be able to cope and it is not good to be a mother and not be with the child 24/7

Ras: a lectureship is generally funded by the university who will be happy for you to take time out. A PhD is (usually) funded by an external body who will expect the results to be in within 4 years, and if they are not, will then often refuse to give the university any further funding. This is not speculation: it happens all the time.

This is why I think it is different in the case of PhDs. And, as I just said, a PhD is still your training period; probably the most diffcult time of your academic career. It's really not the best time to be deliberately getting pregnant.

Oz: I hope you don't quit and I am sure you were the best candidate. My comments are only aimed at people who plan to get pregnant during their education, not at committed people for whom things haven't quite gone to plan.