======= Date Modified 11 Mar 2011 13:55:49 =======
I encountered similar to you in my second post-doc period at a different University. As I've said elsewhere, I was considering action against them for harassment, however, the old story of Universities closing ranks to minimise damage made that option seem pointless (though I know better now). He had previous, but the person who raised the complaint had to withdraw her case. I nearly turned down the job as a result of that case and wished I had.

My direct mentor was erratic in her behaviour and temperament to say the least and my actual boss (a senior, "renowned" Professor) had swings of mood that made those that had to deal with him not want to see him when they had to. The office staff had got the knack of spotting who had to see the Prof down to a fine art (look of fear). Neither was approachable and that in itself caused alot of problems.

Two main incidents stand out. One not knowing how to answer a question with an outside party and getting bollocked for it. Whilst my actions at the time were incorrect, I had not been given certain information by my mentor beforehand. The second was the Prof bollocking a workshop lad doing a job for me over something he claimed he'd asked a week before. He hadn't and the result was a blazing row. He tried later to denigrate the workshop lads privately to me later, unaware that one of them was a mate of my dad's. That time I kicked back and said pretty forthrightly we needed to keep the workshop lads on side. Other incidents included being accused of not doing work I had done (being told to write a report about a report did seem strange) and also my reporting of equipment damage (and I admitted I'd had an accident) mysteriously vanishing at the hands of my mentor.

My mentor also took over a paper I was preparing. I was relegated to minor author, even though I'd done almost all of the work.

I did fight back towards the end when it was clear there were going to be no references (just a sheet of paper from Human Resources confirming my duties; my good previous track record - real world & academia - was badly blotted by this one year contract, leading to a year on the dole), however, it was too little, too late. Even as a bloke I can even relate to breaking down and crying, the situation got that unbearable.

I can't offer an easy answer due to the problem of Universities closing rank. I can really only offer general advice: keep a diary of events (which my log book became) to use should a case or formal complaint be possible. You should also keep any evidence of anything untoward. Such information could be used as evidence at an Industrial Tribunal or internal grievance committee meeting, and the University may in it's haste to protect it's image may decide the said person in your case is themselves a liability. However, that person may be 'moved on' for medical reasons or retired early (depending on age) to avoid the stigma of a sacking.

It does sound like by their isolation of you (same with me) they're trying to make you decide to go away, another trick I've seen used (I saw a Maths lecturer relieved of lecturing duties leaving him to sit in an empty office checking his e-mails - he went of his own accord after nine months). This again saves the publicity aware University the uncomfortable decision of forcing you out. Clearly, they've taken a dislike to you and perhaps you should not go quietly. I'm at a loss to see how you can successfully complete your PhD, so cutting your losses, making a complaint and being as noisy as possible on the way out (including threats of industrial tribunal) may be the way to go. I was told later by an employment advisor that I should have talked to ACAS. You may wish to do the same (or talk to your solicitor) and they could possibly help you as regards what action you can take.

Hi Mud,

I'm not going to make any suggestions regarding how you feel or taking further steps regarding the university and plagiarism-and am only on the application process for the Phd right now (just stating where I am coming from-my knowledge is going to be limited). However, I do know from family and friends that this sort of experience is not uncommon and in most cases, the Phd students were not able to do anything in a legal, official sense. Most of them had to make a decision to leave the situation as it was and just focus on getting their Phd and moving on. (not necessarily physically-just in a mental sense).

But, what I wanted to ask is- other than this specific situation, is your Phd under any threat? Because right now, that would have to be the priority wouldn't it? How long is the first supervisor on sick leave for? If the second one has only a Masters, then they can't really supervise you properly-are you able to approach a third person for these reasons (who can help in the interim until main supervisor comes back from sick leave)? I'm just thinking from practical perspectives here...If you have a supportive person to go to-you can just avoid the second supervisor for a bit other than when you really have to and it might help keep her in check also-if she knows that someone else (with a Phd) is monitoring your work.

The other point is the isolation bit. Can you do something to prevent yourself from being isolated as you say you are. It is easier for someone who is bullying to do this when the person they are targeting is somewhat isolated from the group. However, if you can 'overlook' what the second supervisor has done (no matter how justifiably angry you feel), get yourself a temporary mentor who you can work with, and get back into the group-you yourself will be in a much stronger position and able to move on with your actual Phd work. I can imagine that you feel really angry and devastated-so am not minimising your feelings here-just thinking about what you might be able to do to move forward, without going down the deadly legal-formal complaint road-which rarely accords winner's laurels to students.

======= Date Modified 12 Mar 2011 00:58:31 =======
Hi Pjlu,

Thanks for your reply, I actually found this one of the most helpful. I've secured another supervisor, who has a PhD themselves, which under the circumstances is a pure relief! Not only this, but they also have a background in my discipline! Whilst I have something to lose, I'm not going to go any further with my concerns about plagiarism. However, should the situation become untenable, I will leave banging my drum very loudly indeed. I've also been in situations like this before while I was working and she will win, I'll simply lose the opportunity of a lifetime. She is so very sly and Machiavellian that I don't stand a chance - I couldn't bring myself to lie, cheat or undermine someone else as she does...this is her area of expertise.

Regarding the isolation, I'm working on this too...I've started attending a lot more PGR sessions at the university and I'm making new connections there. I've also attended a couple of Workshops, where I met some more great people. A friend of mine suggested that I too get my 'army' (their words) behind me for support. I think I got stuck in the belief that those I work with on the project are the only people in the university, they are definitely not.

I think that maybe because I had such great, honest and, most importantly, people with integrity around me during my undergraduate degree, that all this has come as a massive shock to me. Someone else has mentioned that this type of behaviour is not uncommon, how saddening...but if I and others like me fall by the wayside, imagine what our universities will be full of...doesn't bear thinking about does it?

Sincere regards

Mud

P.S. Good luck with your PhD, you sound like someone who I wish was at my university!

======= Date Modified 12 Mar 2011 00:17:15 =======
Mud,

You've done well to find a second supervisor, well done. No go forward with that new, supportive supervisor and get that PhD!!!. I am now 100% positive you will succeed.

My original answer I now consider to be wrong, as given the positive, constructive response of Pjlu it now looks out of place. Pjlu's advice helped you go forward with the thing you most want, you PhD (and it's clear you really wanted to stick with it reading back now - that I call determination). Pjlu, thanks for showing that there is a more supportive, positive way of going forward and can I say your response has also changed my own opinions.

The moral before resorting to 'other' means should be to do your best to go forward with your original plan and to make every effort to go forward if you really want something bad enough. Mud, you have managed that and perhaps during my post-doc problems I should have done the same. There was an alternative project leader and I just didn't think to approach her. If I had, my original career plan may have been intact and I might not have been ruing what might have been.

It appears there are lessons to be learned and I simply forgot one of the rules of PhD and post-doc research. Sometimes, it's more productive to think outside the norm. Pjlu, thanks also. (up)

Hi Mackem_Beefy,

Thank you for your last response. I've certainly learnt some valuable lessons relating to what has happened. Just as Pjlu stated, another PhD student I confided in also said that this type of thing is not uncommon and that if you are to collaborate, do two things first. Establish from the very outset who will do what to contribute to the article/publication/research. Secondly, decide on the order of authorship, again from the very outset. Albeit a steep learning curve (I still hope that I haven't 'ruffled too many feathers') a valuable one nonetheless.

Sincere regards,

Mud

Thank you both for saying such nice things. It made me feel a bit humble...so thank you and best of luck.:-)

======= Date Modified 13 Mar 2011 19:34:25 =======
======= Date Modified 12 Mar 2011 17:18:11 =======

I'll add one more thing to this and that's about the plagerism. For now, yes let it go. Don't complain, don't rock the boat and build on your new, stronger position.

However, once the PhD is under the belt, a very subtle way with your complete set of data would be to go for journal publication. It may be you can then (with maximum subtlety and not in a hostile manner) at least show an incomplete picture in 'her' publication(s). As she's grabbed the data from you, if you play it right she could be the one with the egg on her face at the end with apparently clumsy publication(s) to her name. She'll know what the score is but provided you're clever with your actions, she'll be sitting smarting, unable to do anything about it.

======= Date Modified 13 Mar 2011 13:39:41 =======
Dear Mackem_Beefy,

"He that studieth revenge keepeth his own wounds green, which otherwise would heal and do well." (John Milton).

Sincere regards,

Mud

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke.

I believe the lady concerned must at some point be held to account. She is, at the end of the day, a thief.

However, I respect what you are saying and perhaps someone in the future, in a stronger position, will deal with her.

I do feel like a whimp not complaining about this situation, but I am up against very powerful people and at a loss to know what to do without losing out on the best opportunity I've been given in my entire life :-(

I am actually becoming afraid of starting a ph.d... : (

May I ask which subject is it?

Hello Everyone,

My PhD looks as though it's now not going to happen. My supervisor has taken most of my work as their own and I have very little left to do. Having nothing much left to lose, I think it's time to take things further.

Is there an external organisation who can take on complaints, or represent me were I to make an official complaint against my university? I have no faith in my universities NUS so I wouldn't want to approach them. Any organisation that only has internal (inevitably biased and media aware) regulation is worrying.

Complaints I'd like to make are: plagiarism (by supervisor), bullying (by supervisor) and lack of consistent supervision.

Sincere regards,

Mud

======= Date Modified 10 Apr 2011 19:57:34 =======

If you apply to do a PhD at another institution, would one of these people provide you with a reference just to make this problem disappear?

I'm minded of the earlier stages of this thread and think quietly moving on somewhere else (if you can get a reference) would be better. A candidate who has 'rocked the boat' elsewhere is a less popular choice.

Complain after you move to another position. If you don't get anywhere then you indeed have nothing else to lose.

But do everything to secure your own position first before complaining as at the complaint stage, Universities close ranks.

The earlier stages of this thread taught me boxing clever might be a better option rather than ploughing in and if boxing clever is still an option, exhaust this first.

I'd like to know what Mud did. Tragic circs!