'some people definitely have some sort of problem with it (and treat my husband like he's a saint for 'allowing' it grrrrrrrrr).'

i have a problem with people and in particular men who think that they can control a woman's life. decide how many kids she will have, where she will work, what jobs she will do and when. i believe everyone should live their life as they want to and no one has a right to limit another person by making them 'behave' the way they want them to or by making them 'do' what they want them to. when will that other person every live their life???

Smilodon--that is interesting about your attempts to go to grad school, and now you are doing it! When I was in undergrad, my then boyfriend wanted to get engaged/married as soon as he graduated ( he was a year ahead of me)but I wanted to go to grad school, and knew I was not ready to settle into a married life with house and kids...he was not willing to wait while I went to grad school so he said...choose! which became the easiest choice of my life--bye bye boyfriend!

Yes Smilodon, I would guess you and I are close in age--and I know that people act like its an age where you should just as you say slide into old age. But old age does not come for another 30 years or so...or at least 25--that is a long time. What are you meant to do, sit and wait to die?! I am fortunate to have sisters and some friends who have had children in their 40's and so understand that it can be a decade filled with NEW not settling into some sort of coma.

So I sort of expect my 40+ friends having new babies for the first time to in their way understand the PhD. Yes, babies and a PhD are different in some respects--but the overarching thing is--doing something that matters to you and not listening to a society that says you are past the age when it should be done.

Hahah, I was just noticing, that before I moved to the UK, I had the odd grey hair I would pluck out in horror--and now since I have been here, there has not been ONE grey hair!!!!! contrary to what you might expect!

Xeno - I think it is sometimes. Some people seem to be personally aggrieved if you don't knuckly down and accept unsatisfying, boring work. I remember trying to explain (many years ago) to my mother that I was bored with my job. She replied:'Do you think I like my job? Do you think your father likes his job? Who are you that you should like your job?' I used to think it was just my family but I'm astonished at how pervasive this miserable attitude is.

Jojo - fortunately my husband isn't the problem - but I'm surprised at the people who do seem to think like this. People I wouldn't always expect.

Xeno, that is too bad about losing a friend over the PhD ...but in some sense if it were a real friend they would have been happy for you. I have lost some friendships as well as a result of the PhD and my move to England, but my thought is, well, if you cannot be there for me, even if you do not totally "get it", you are no friend. I do agree that there is some element of jealousy and sour grapes that show up in the reactions that you get to a PhD...

Yup - the baby and the PhD both confound people. I like to tell people my age in case they think I'm just a badly worn 35 year-old!

Yes, what is that about thinking that you have to settle for a miserable existence? I disagree with that--what is the Emerson quote I think, about people lead lives filled with quiet desperation...and Thoreau? or maybe Emerson again, who said, that at the end of his life he did not want to find out he had not lived?!

Thanks all for the replies on the thread, its the sort of thing that puts this all back into the right frame and gives the fuel to keep going!!! ...I only have 17 more boring footnotes to proofread...ugh....

I have a friend who is a very young grandmother ( her son had a child when he was still in high school) and another friend whose child is younger than the other's grandchild ( does that make sense?) and we are all the same age within about 6 weeks of each other. The very young grannie has quit her job ( she still has a school age child at home) and has gone to pursue a Masters degree fulltime! Good for her, I say! My sister just had a baby in her 40's--and she is only following in a family tradition of another sister who has had all of her kids in her 40's--all fine and healthy, thanks! ( sister included).

Yeah, aggrieved is definitely the word Smilodon, like your decision is impacting on their lives. Cheers for the sympathy olivia about losing my friend. That wasn't the first friend I'd lost as a result of academia. I had a friend/co-worker who was really miserable in her job, and she was always threatening to leave. When I left a few years ago to do my MA, she acted as though I'd personally insulted her, and our friendship ended after many painful confrontations regarding how 'lucky' some of us were to be able to 'swan off' and study. It was a hard pill to swallow, realising that I had to let go of some friendships because my supposed friends couldn't accept what I wanted for my life. The funny thing is I've always been so supportive of anything my friends have decided to do. When I was going through a really low period in my life, this friend was there for me, but the minute I finally got some clarity and decided to do something positive for myself, she couldn't accept me anymore.

That's so funny what you said about the job dissatisfaction continuum Smilodon. It's like this engrained thing that we should accept the fact that we can't expect to be happy in our work, and 'that's just the way it is, so deal with it' sort of thing. My mom is completely oblivious about the PhD. She has never once told me that she was proud of what I'd achieved academically. I've just stopped talking to her about it altogether.

Well I can't say I planned to be doing either the baby thing or the grad school thing this late in life but I'm not ready to be put out to pasture just yet TYVM!

Xeno - I have a very good friend in particular that I am finding hard going - I really don't know how many more veiled put-downs I can weather. I do weather them though, because I know she is unhappy with her own life but I just so wish I could basically put a rocket up her and get her to really deal with that.

My parents were always completely baffled by my life choices. It's funny isn't it - to think that some kids are pushed and pushed and we are just left, unacknowledged.

What is it about a type of friend who is there when you are miserable--and no doubt about it, that can be so important--but when the sun shines again for you, they only want to find the dark side of what is going on? I think that those sorts of people really prefer you miserable, for whatever reason, it makes them feel less threatened or something to function as the comforter when you are down.

Someone who is genuinely able to be there for you when you are happy and have good fortune--now that is a good friend. So much for the saying fair weather friends--perhaps those are the truest ones in the end.

Misery loves company - and I'm sure I've done a lot of that in my time. I still like to compalin a lot (in case you hadn't noticed!).

Complaining is healthy!!! And somehow I imagine you as the first person with a bottle of champagne in hand for a friend to celebrate their good news!