Lara you describe the sort of supervisor - student relationship I see a lot of my fellow students having to negotiate and tolerate. Having read several of your threads and comments on other people's issues you strike me as very intelligent, capable and knowledgable in your field. I have immense respect for those people who are held hostage to their less than ideal supervisors simply for their tenacity and dedication. I deduce from what's been said that it is in those situations that the underling aspect is manipulated by some.

I have been incredibly fortunate perhaps in my own situation with both my supers. When we disagree, we state why and what can be done about it but they are the experts on how to get a thesis to pass - I'm not so their views although appearing petty at times are taken on board and someone has already mentioned that during those sort of times the 'student' identity can be a source of self forgiveness.

jouri, that would be me. i think if you re-read my comments you'll see that i explicitly acknowledge the learning bit. it's just that you appear to equate anyone who learns=student, and i don't; for me, in my background, the term is reserved for masters and bachelor students. of course i learn. if that makes me a student, fine. but then please, let's also call the lecturers, professors, and most people who work outside of university, students. because they, too, learn. or so i hope for them.
i have no problem with the label itself. so in this country, in contrast to where i'm from, PhD researchers are labeled students. fine. i do have a problem when this goes hand in hand with a devaluation of what we are doing, and our work does not get acknowledged. sometimes i do this myself, sometimes it comes from others.

Well, there is the old saying, "Call me anything you want, just don't call me late for dinner!"

I agree with that sentiment. Whatever I am called is fine, I am not really bothered with it--but eating! Now its important to not miss one of the most simple pleasures in life!

Zucchini Latkes with Red Pepper Jelly and Smoked Trout

http://food.yahoo.com/recipes/food-and-wine/528159A7-BBC4-4959-9298FC0C383A0D16/zucchini-latkes-with-red-pepper-jelly-and-smoked-trout

Sorry, but that just somehow begged for a trout recipe.

"Call me anything you want, but don't call me late for a trout dinner"

I know what you mean, Shani. People looking down on PhD students and not giving any respect. I've learnt that it is best not to fight the feeling. If they wanna call me a "student", so be it. If they want to look down at me, I'll secretly smile to myself and work hard to get better.

On the other hand, I have this somewhat Socratian vision of being a student, to belong to a circle of wisdomseekers and such. Of course it's an illusion, but it helped me in thepast.

Going back to the "student" debate: I really hate the email addresses that all students - undergrad and postgrad - are given at my uni. It's

[email protected]

The "learner" bit really annoys me! It's so condescending. If you are not learning in your job, whatever age you are, you're probably crap at your job. Isn't everyone a "learner"?

While I'm at it, who came up with "learner" as a replacement for "student" anyway? No doubt the same people who call a library a "learning resource centre".

juno - is that really how you are addressed via email?

Never heard of that personally but I would be slighted by it too.

What are the staff addressed as?