Simply.. NO

Interesting replies eh Jennifr?

A few no's and a few hell yeah's!

It seems that those who have something (like a job) sorted WELL before completing their research and findings are the happiest - to wit, in 5 years (imo) the PhD pathway will be as useful as a chocolate fireguard for the vast majority, and the quality, the relative brilliance of the contribution made through their thesis will be almost totally redundant. What will be important -- and quite right too, of course!! -- is doing 8 million teaching hours for the "c.v." and publishing something (damn it, ANYTHING (it doesn't really matter)) in some (rancid/obscure) journal before knowing what the hell one is really on about.

Abandon ship, abandon ship!!

I also see several "hidden" aspects of post PhD life that are frequently glossed over.

The insular, obsessive nature of research, doesnt do much for your social skills. The crushing waves of rejection (grants, jobs papers etc) doesnt engender the brightest of outlooks. The lack of contact with people also means you are less likely to make friends outside of work (although this is better at a uni).

The short term nature of fixed contracts are not regarded highly by partners who are often unwiling to move around often without any security (one of the reasons why my gf left). Who could have guessed that a 30 year old male with the salary of an assistant manager at McDonalds, and a future of fixed term contracts isnt such a catch.

If you are aware of any woman who doesnt really care about income, having a family, buying a home, being frequently uprooted, or ignored for long periods of time could you give me a yell?

My OH has a business nearby and I can't move. I will probably have to commute a fair way for jobs. It would be tricky (in theory as I don't want one) relying on getting a postdoc in one geographical area, although there are a few unis within 1-1.5 hours.

I have just graduated from univeristy in cellular biology and am currently considering the pros and cons of a phd. Im trying to get a research assistant job to help make that decision. I think that I like the idea of doing something interesting for the next few years and am not ready to sell out to the "city". however, the money of the city and the security is slightly appealing. On the flip side I want to use my degree and not feel like it was all in vain I think ive got at least 3-4 yr of interest in science left in me but im not sure i could hack lots of post docs. My other option feels like graduate medicine. this would lead me to a job but theres still lots of opportunity and i get to enjoy aspects of science still. I dont want to just do a job because its the obvious option or because I know what it involves.. any advice? from this forum im really confused and it looks like a phd might not be a fantastic option?! thanks¬!

Didn't read the entire thread, so I'm just referring to the most recent Badhaircut entry. What a load of rubbish. Stop crying like a girl and get a life. Book some sessions with Paul McKenna or similar to boost your self confidence. You're highly qualified, and if you're 30 years old it's definitely not too late. You could earn 50k+ within four years if you left academia behind (and went into consultancy or industry). And perhaps find a better girlfriend. But this depressing talk here is almost unbearable.

Hmm, real constructive and spoken like a true modern "academic zombie". All bluster and little intelligence.

"Book sessions with Paul McKenna" (with what? Monopoly money)
"Don't cry like a girl" (I am not even going to comment on the sexism behind that)
"You could earn 50k+ within four years if you left academia behind!"
- Despite thats what I actually spent years training to do. If I wanted to work in industry, I would have gotten a job there in the first place.

What I say may be depressing, but tell me which part about academic life that isnt true. Am I lying in anything I say? Or is it your lack of ability to deal with the darker side that leads you to attack me, to save your own precious ego?

I'm not attacking you, I'm just completely dis-agreeing with every single word you say. Your negativism wont help you to change anything. Yes, there is a dark side to academia, but if you're so concerned about it why don't you just leave it behind. And if you're so concerned about not finding a materialistic girlfriend, then you should perhaps consider earning more money (outside of academia).

Besides, Paul McKenna's books are available for £12.

P.S.: please replace the "don't cry like a girl" with "don't cry like a little child girl OR boy". Thanks.

Okay, I wont take this as an attack, but to answer your points

1) "completely dis-agreeing with every single word you say"

So you don't think there is poor guidance and career structure for PhDs and insecurity, lack of appropriate renumeration, high pressure in academia? Please, I would be happy to listen to your picture.

2) "Your negativism wont help you to change anything...why don't you just leave it behind"

I am sure people said this to Nelson Mandella, or to anyone that ever stood up against an oppressive system.

3)"...you should perhaps consider earning more money."

Everyone is materialistic to a degree, unless you happen to exist without food and live in the sky. I dont want a materialistc girlfriend, but at the same time I should be able to offer the basics, such as a stable career and a home. Or am I being too greedy?

Are you a PhD student O.Stoll? If your studies have not taught you to challenge things and to blindly obey, I would question their worth.

to 1), 2) and 3)

Life is tough. There is pressure in universities and industry. Without my PhD I wouldn't have been able to get an extremely well-paid position in a very well-known management consulting firm. I also had an offer for a lecturership in Limerick. The thing is, even if the university system is not always fair, I am very grateful because it gave me the highest academic title. You think you are fighting a system but in truth you appear to fight yourself. The system is not unfair, it's just like the real life: only the toughtest survive, not necessarily the most intelligent. You have already proven that you are a tough guy as you completed your PhD. Still, you continue hanging around on this student forum because you still feel like a student. Like a poor student. That's your self perception.

But you have no idea how the industry sees you: as a highly qualified, very ambitious high-flyer. Now it's up to you to make the most of it. Polish your CV and shoes, buy the best suit you can afford, read all the right books and get out there. And I don't think you need a stable career and a home to get a girlfriend. What you need is self-confidence in order to get a career, the girlfriends will then come along automatically.

Alternatively, continue to live like a student and to complain how badly life has treated you, then you will still be here on findaphd.com in 30 years while the world has moved on.

well, after reading the whole thread and the most recent responses, I wasn't sure whether to post my opinion for fear of being panned, but here goes.....

I'm in a similar situation, i'm just beginning my second year and am having serious doubts as to whether it is the right thing for me. I love and hate my work, when things work it's brilliant (i do chemistry) but this is interspersed with months of nothing. The feeling of wasting months and months of work is so disheartening.

I'm engaged and want to buy a house, get married and eventually start a family, when i finsh my PhD I will be 27 and only just embarking on the career ladder, and from what I know not only do there not seem to be the jobs out there in industry I'll probably end up doing something I could of walked into at 21. I want a promising career and love my subject but I don't like the way my personal life seems to be on hold because of my PhD.

I just feel so frustrated. Ladies especially, am I the only one?!

Okay, I respect your position O.Stoll, and agree its not a fair world/ its necessary to be competitive, etc. Fair enough.

However, in your current job, is it PhDs only? Or are there people there that have been able to get there by other means? Because if it is that case, what stopped you doing your current job with your BSc and extra experience? In short what was the point in you doing your PhD in the first place?

For the record, I dont see myself as a poor student. I see myself as a Jim Casey figure (from The Grapes of Wrath). A radical agitator, motivator and philosopher of sorts. Well someone has to do it...

"However, in your current job, is it PhDs only? "
Answer: not sure yet as I've just started but probably not. I reckon PhDs will be minority.

"Because if it is that case, what stopped you doing your current job with your BSc and extra experience? In short what was the point in you doing your PhD in the first place?"
Answer:The whole PhD thing just happened without it being my lifelong ambition. However, it then occured to me that a PhD is actually quite a distinctive and extraordinary qualification, thus stopping me from going into industry straight after BSc, etc.