I see where you are coming from, you're right, a PhD is no necessity in my current job, but it's no harm either. In management consultancies, for instance, many employers give you the money and opportunity to do an MBA or professional doctorate after a few years in the profession, so it's certainly a time advantage if you already have one of these qualifications once you enter the profession: whereas you still have to start at the same level as someone straight from university, the PhD will then make it easier for you to proceed smoothly up the ranks (that's what I've been told). Anyway, the money is good and the sense of achievement gives me confidence which I perhaps wouldn't have had three years ago prior to my PhD research.

I wish you good luck for your "fight against the establishment"

o.stoll - you sound deluded. Reality check required there methinks.

I know what I'm talking about as I live the dream.
Whereas you just hate the laboratory, apparently.

what are the wages for a nurse these days?

Do you (anyone) think that a PhD changes your approach to work? I have never had so many deadlines, so many people demanding (however nicely) results from me, never had to deal with so many instruemntal and contractual issues, and so much to write. That sounds bad, but I think it could be the making of you. You really have to learn to be tough, and you take ownership of your project. In industry, without a PhD, I didn't experience any of this - you were a cog in a machine, to use a cliche, and not encouraged to get personal with your work - it was just "work", not a vocation.

p.s. Badhaircut, sorry you're having a tough time of it - I'm an optimist myself and kind of hope things will work out for the best in the end - but I'll let you know when I'm in the same situation post submission next week ;o) I just wanted to respond to your comment "If you are aware of any woman who doesnt really care about income, having a family, buying a home, being frequently uprooted, or ignored for long periods of time could you give me a yell?" ...we'll I fit that category, though beginning to care about an income after a year without one... and used to being ignored with a boyf who is in academia too. So there are some of us out there! One of my friends who's in an academic couple take turns to go to where their post-docs/ PhDs are. Good luck

Recently back from a much-earned break in Corfu. Ready to attack and finish the write-up by Christmas (he said, tongue-in-cheek).

Unlike some I have read the full thread, and contributed to it.
I was as amused as I was astounded by o.stoll’s comments, and as there are a number of people on here just starting out and asking questions that relate to the thread title, I thought it worth adding to my previous comments.

I thought the opening-line contribution of “Didn’t read the entire thread” revealed more about the poster than anything else, which is saying something.

If you are about to launch into a personal attack on someone, isn’t it simple courtesy to read what they’ve said before responding? Or don’t they teach that in management consultancy? “Stop crying like a girl and get a life” – ah, the aggressive, emotional contribution that belies the intelligence of a PhD candidate/graduate. But as you later say, “only the toughest survive, not necessarily the most intelligent”. So, the most important thing about conducting, say, sociological research or other research that contributes to the fund of knowledge available in human societies is to be, er, “tough”. That offers tremendous hope to the marines amongst us, I’m sure.

“Without my PhD I wouldn't have been able to get an extremely well-paid position in a very well-known management consulting firm. I also had an offer for a lecturership in Limerick” – are you suggesting therefore that PhD’s are generally worthwhile and lead to the kinds of positions you describe or are you merely telling people you don’t know that you have a lovely, shiny new job that pays you bundles of cash to feel important when you type on here? Hmmmm? Your writing is as confused as it is confusing.

“But you have no idea how the industry sees you: as a highly qualified, very ambitious high-flyer”. Heaven help me if that’s how people see me; I cringe at the thought. I’d rather be respected for intelligence, dedication to research and accurate findings, and so on, so perhaps your own materialistic, image-driven sentiment isn’t so relative to the question that was asked at the start of the thread. You crave money and social advancement (from what and how you write), many on here have stated that they do not, so you miss their point entirely.

“The whole PhD thing just happened without it being my lifelong ambition” – ahh, and there’s the rub. In a matter of years if not already it is increasingly likely that PhD’s will represent little more than a little status tag that helped along a career here, bumped up an industry person’s pay there. Why should we remember the origins of the PhD award anyway? It’s all about being tough, having the most transferable skills etc; not trying to prove something new or exciting or worthwhile, right?

“I see where you are coming from, you're right, a PhD is no necessity in my current job, but it's no harm either”. – So you do a huge u-turn on your original statement where you say, “I'm not attacking you, I'm just completely dis-agreeing with every single word you say”. Two things stand out – that you were so quick to type you didn’t really know what you were typing; in that respect you reflect quite well the current condition of post-PhD academia in a great many UK universities (imo). And that you think if we all fought just that bit harder, brushed up our cv’s just that little bit better, spent just a few more invisible pounds on a suit with a better thread count, yes, then all 40,000+ PhD candidates would ALL get those jobs they wanted.

Laugh? I think your consultancy would charge me for it, so I’ll just pass on your advice altogether, thanks. Good luck with your industry-related position though; hope you can make a fast buck.

@ Matt: I would normally say "I hope you have had a relaxing, calming time on holiday" but if that actually was the case it doesnt seem so any longer.

The holiday was brilliant, thanks, but it merely delayed writing what I've written below. My tone is disparaging on purpose because his/her contribution was, imo, poor (despite confirming earlier thoughts that those with an industry preference are more suited to PhD-dom).

I'm still buzzing off the time away, I thoroughly recommend it after 3 years of slog