I got an R an R but when the report arrived and I read the corrections, I was shocked considering that it was a major correction. However, my university does not have major correction instead, major= R & R. That said, people already are judging me in the dept especially the junior faculty. Most junior faculties don't get to be examiners and they are inexperienced and I don't care about what they think. However, I have not cried but it's difficult to pull yourself together and it's two months now and I haven't looked at my thesis and their corrections yet. However, I will be submitting a rewritten draft sometime in dec for sure. R & R has not stopped me from applying for post docs elsewhere. In my case, it was entirely my supervision that failed me. When I hear about your relationship with your supervisor, I remember an advice given by someone whom I know well and is an HoD in social science dept from US. her advice was never trust a supervisor who is always smiling and does not warn you or criticise you. In my case, supervisors never told me anything about if the thesis was in good shape. Instead, they said they cannot supervise me anymore so I must submit! That is why I submitted. If my supervisors really cared, I would have got a Minor. It's not fair at all. You just have to stew and see others go ahead while you are stuck with no certainty. My examiners were not that bad. They cleared me in the viva. They knew it is a major but the university regulations constrained them for an R & R outcome. You are going to continue to question where things went wrong but there is no point as you just have to get on to write what your examiners want you to. My external didn't like that I supported her contemporary so she has suggested so many corrections. I didn't know that until I later googled their names together and I can see that they must have striping views about things that they are both interested in. My fault was I found this later after submission.

I just read the formal outcome of,the viva communicated by my university and I am quite pissed that the examiners could have easily just given me minor corrections considering that most of the correction only involves restructuring. The university allows that for upto six months! I don't know why they have given me full 12 months. It's way too much and it shows their poor reading if the university guideline. Although, in their report, they do sAy the analysis and theoretical contribution was missing in my current t submission. But, in their list of corrections, they didn't care at all to mention what theories they would like me to consider and accordingly what analytical angle SHIULD i use. I feel that the external was quite pissed that I said my findings supports the conclusions another person whi I think is her contemporary as they both work in the same region. The external clearly said that instead if saying support, i should say that I contradict it and not only that I should a,sk criticize it. What the hell? That's a total flipping of my entire bone of the thesis!
I have to be blamed for this partially as I blindly allowed my supervisors to choose my examiners. I am so repenting now! I should have really used those whom I had cited the most and whose conclusions matched that of mine. I am really feeling scared that I must have royally pissed the examiner as her expectations might be too high from the resubmission and I might not be able to convince her and so I better take the baite now and get re-examined by the person whom I support in her conclusions.
What happens if I choose to be re-examined? , i don't think my university allows,it as I will have to check it ...

It has been two months since my viva outcome and I have not received any hint or indication that I will get the examiner's copy of my thesis. I have been given R and R. What does it mean if the examiner's don't return the copy if your thesis? Although, they both had read the electronic version and had carried my original hard bound copy during the viva just for a a show. I had to email them both my original thesis and I guess that is how they must have read it and there might not be much for me to gain from their hard bound copies. I have asked my supervisor on what he thinks and if he can contact them for their copy. Is it okay to have the examiner's copy of the thesis? Is it awkward if they are asked to send me their copy?

Oh well ... Have a good night and good luck :)

Kimwipes

Well then preach by practice starting with yourself about keeping it ethical. First go and find out more about what a non-resident post doc is in social sciences. It's as formal as the one you currently have (if you have) except the lab work in social sciences is the everyday life and the data are people/ human beings.

Do you know anything about social sciences here or anything about Nigerian PhDs? Do you know what a Phd is? How did you learn about this forum? There is nothing wrong with a Nigerian Phd even though I don't have one from there. At least, they learn how not to look down upon others who are unemployed but have same postdoc skills. Yeah.. I too get this spam emails you are talking about and wonder if it's written by people like yourself who are apparently from Nigeria?

Treeoflife

No I didnt misunderstand. I knew kimwipes was referring to something with pure sciences and completely unaware of how social science postdocs can be done remotely or from home even if it's formal as is with many of my colleagues who live in one town and even in a different country and their postdoc affiliation is somewhere else sometimes called non-resident postdoc. I am looking for people social science in this forum to respond, unfortunately, it might be that not many people seem to know which is understandable. And my 'American' label in the title is making people confused as Americans seem to have more money to fund such postdoc type research in social sciences.
I have formally passed my viva and working in corrections but already looking for ideas for such types of postdocs while preparing formal postdoc grants.

Kimiwipes
Not everyday can afford to wait for a formal postdoc like you. You might already have one but in the meantime, people like us have to eat and breathe. The research industry is flexible and it might be a research degree involving postdoc type skills which I already have but not have a formal post doc like yourself. Until ther happens, I want to survive using and demonstrating my postdoc skills and I will considering I have spent so many years in of not the computer and many Libraries, and many universities.i am open to be flexible and provide my services to anyone interested in my expertise.

Congrats on having a formal postdoc. No, this is not at all a joke, it's about networking with people (unemployed, stressed about uncertain future after so many years in academia unlike you who seem to have it all.

Can anyone tell me about his buzz that you get paid to sit at home and do a postdoc? Is the to formal degree or you are doing a proxy postdoc for someone else and get paid? Can I wrote a postdoc on any topic of my interest and still get paid not necessarily from an institution?

When my examiners were about to announce their decision on my viva, they called for supervisor. The external thought that my supervisor might think I must have got lost somewhere on the campus. I don't know what she meant here. Nevertheless, she told the final decision which R & R in front of him. Do you think he must have felt embarrassed? But it had two supervisors and the other one had left the uni. At the same time, I suspect my internal examiner who is very good friends with this supervisor had already hinted him about the outcome because when my supervisors took meet out for lunch an hour before the viva, I saw them chatting together in his office. I don't know what all this means. I think the external seemed to be blaming my supervisor a bit but I am not sure, the supervisor too was noting all the corrections the examiners were rambling. Do you think that all this reflects badly on my supervisor and look less of a scholar than the examiners?
If the examiners wanted to fail me, that was their time because there is no point giving me more problem after resubmission although I doubt the supervisors will be that forthcoming to read my drafts even though they have expressed their perfunctory yes.

Dear bewildered

Thank you. I know In social science, the Phd process is very subjective and maybe I am being a bit harsh in this supervisor but to be honest, half of the corrections the examiners have given me is the same that my supervisors rejected when I had initially written them that is why I don't actually disregard but myself for,not trusting myself enough. But then, I could not submit until they had said yes..what a dilemma. It's a gamble...what you write for your supervisors is rejected by the examiners! Either way, the student suffers especially now that have to raise money to live additional months in the UK and without a job it's so hard.

In any case, why should I assume the the will,be happy to support my application? How do I find out if he won't write me down?

Hi Phddefault
I cannot believe that your supervisor was so narrow minded. In my case, my supervisor is definitely not a Racist but I guess, he is protecting his own career by discouraging were PhDs but the way he is doing is wrong. Also, I am in social sciences where getting published is like another birth. Our publication rate is so low that most aim for one per year of upto 8k and that is still counted as a great achievement so I don't think the he Can use me, besides, publishing in social sciences is not that tough if you are a goo writer. I have already paid so much into Phd that I have no choice but to go ahead even if he thinks I am a mediocre. I don't care anyways. My examiners have redeemed me and what they think matters the most. All my future references will be from my examiners anyways. Also, am I the only non-white Phd graduate who has trouble finishing the Phd in this forum? From my experience, most of those who land up with R and R are non-white students. It's like telling us that we are not white enough yet! I have no interest in this particular supervisor. He is boring an has no ambitions. All he is a good employee. I wonder why he is not a layer so he can exactly what the book says and not use is mind and innovative was.

Hi both
yes its a good idea to ask for a referece from someone who appreciates me. but i am going to find out directly from institution and express my concern that i dont feel confident of sending superviors's letter of support. although, one of them is quite professioal as she is of high standing in her field but the other one, is i find judgemental and has already put me in a box. can you believe, he will update me on the progress of how other students he supervises are doing and probably fairing better than me as if i could give a damn! he is unprofessional even if he is well-published. i am loosing my patience with him, sometimes i do feel a bit sympathetic for him as he is not English and might struggle with the same bureaucratic prblems that i face adjustig here as an international student. although he from Europe but i guess professional ethics are different there.

Even though I have got a R&R as per the viva outcome, I am simultaneously applying for postdocs starting next year. I might not still have the phd in hand and infact, might not have a successful outcome on my post doc Application but it's a good exercise. However, my question is now about letters of reference. Even if my examiners suggested major corrections, I agree with them and would want them to write me a reference letter. But the university does not allow any contact with examiners until resubmission :(. I am left now with my supervisors and I give a damn about them after the outcome of my viva. I think they have totally done an unfair job but what can else can i do? Can I ask references from people in the department who have not supervised me but they are more accomplished and I share good relations with them and trust they will write a string supportive letter. I also know about other scholars from other universities who will happily write me a strong letter of support but have not necessarily workd with me...but how this will reflect on my post doc application?

Dear Both

Congrats to both of you on going through the R & R successfully. I am now in a similar situation but my external examiner said I will not have another viva. She cleared me and that is what I tell all my colleagues that I have passed but the university regulations do not allow the option of 6 months submission which is what I am opting for. It's either 3 or 12 months. Some people, appear worried when I say R AND R but the examiners are trying to help me! Imagine if they had failed or just awarded an MPhil it would have been a disaster as I would have to get readmitted fro another Phd and also do my empirical data avian! Instead, by allowing me the R & R option, they are giving me a second chance to get this upto a Phd standard and I have their corrections in front of me that they want to see. Basically, my supervisors have failed me. What I wrote for them was rejected by the examiners. I could not submit until the supervisors said it was ready to be submitted. If they wanted to fail me or have another Viva then my first viva day was their chance to do so. I would believe that the examiners really and genuinely want to see this research get published and loved my empirical data and have rejected not me but my sloppy supervision and heartless supervisors who kept bullying me all the time and the examiners have set me free. I have very little if any respect for my supervisors.