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======= Date Modified 27 Oct 2009 16:59:23 =======
Thanks for the Birthday wishes! :D

Stressed - I hear you... I did some pretty rubbish and soul destroying jobs, though only for a few months at a time prior to going to uni. Sometimes I complain at having to work late or whatever but the work is immensely more satisfying and rewarding than most other jobs I know. Glad to hear you're doing better now :)

And of course - we should all be enjoying ourselves :D
One thing that really grinds my gears are those who work evenings & weekends for NO extra pay, just in order to 'do that bit more work' or impress the boss. Ugh... not for me. Does. Not. Compute. Lol... I know guys that regularly work weekends, and for what?? Sometimes they stare when I leave ON TIME at 5:30pm, but I don't care, as I know I've done my time and am leaving to go have a life!

Lastly, regards getting a job with current quals - if any of you have kids, tell them to go into engineering... plenty of jobs. Not the best paid, but we're always in demand!

Just think of the long-term goal and if it makes you happy, do whatever it takes to get you there.

My goal is to save like mad and buy a little bungalow almost outright in order to have some sort of security when older. I know the electronics industry is volatile and most folks have to move all over the place - if it comes to that I wouldn't mind going to Germany/U.S. etc for a bit, as long as I can come back to my little bungalow (not very rock, but hey). I do enjoy what I do and read up on it in my spare time to be a better engineer, but if it came to it and I was financially comfortable, I wouldn't mind doing another job - even starting a business. One thing I couldn't see myself doing was staying in research - I could have stayed on my PhD but it wouldn't have got me toward my goal any quicker and I really wasn't suited to it. I've just satisfied another goal of mine - to work closer to home! I have now cut my commute from 1hour+ down to 15mins..! The impact it will have on my life will be tremendous.

My other main goal is to have fun and enjoy life - get better at guitar (main priority ;) ), play the odd computer game, read more books, see more films, hang out with friends and girlfriend.

I suggest listening to some amazing 80s rock! Guns and Roses for starters!! ;D

Life's way too short.. I turned 25 today and I'm going to make sure to have fun. Took the day off, going bowling, to the cinema, and then having a big steak for dinner later on - you betcha!! :D

======= Date Modified 26 Oct 2009 11:40:42 =======
I hope you don't say that as if you are surrendering to it! The worst thing people can do is work those hours 'just because'. If so, it'll become standard. I think it's less modern life as it is management sucking you dry. I see people staying late all the time at work but I'd rather have my dignity and a life than stay to please the boss - they wouldn't blink if it came to laying people off, a job's just a job etc, you have to look out for yourself. I always laugh at these con job ads which say 'fast paced work environment, must be self starter, early responsibillity' etc - IMO this translates to exploitation - I know, I've worked many of the jobs. Career in my opinion is another name for unpaid overtime. Don't get me wrong, I work hard and enjoy what I do now, but you have to be a bit street smart and see through the BS, and not lie down and take whatever they throw at you. When I'm in my death bed, I want to be able to say I had a great time and didn't work my life away.

======= Date Modified 26 Oct 2009 09:55:28 =======
Unpaid overtime is a symptom of our times and many professions. However those that do it willingly when it's not needed... :o Does not compute... Usually tied to kissing the bosses ass to be honest.
I constantly have to ask why working hours are going up yet wages have remained almost static despite massive rises in assets such as property - it's harder to get by than ever and I'd rather use extra time to chill out or get a second job which pays for those hours.

It can do - it's one of the reasons that led to me quitting. I remember after having quit my supervisor had a good talk with me saying how his research puts a strain on his family as iy is never really off your mind. How could it be? Depends if you love it or not. For me - I wanted to get out. Now I'm working 9-5 and my time is my own after work - hang out with friends, saving a hefty deposit for a house and have started to play guitar seriously again. It's amazing - work will never come before enjoying life again! Unless again work is your life and you love your research :)

Well put. These were also concerns of mine which helped towards my decision to quit my doctorate - nobody really discusses the downsides which really is a disservice to those considering to do a PhD. It wasn't really going to benefit me, and I prefer to play guitar/start a business in terms of challenge. I've now had two real job offers (thank heavens I had real engineering work experience!) and am taking one 10 mins from home, on a great salary, and no need to worry about papers or research in my spare time! Just work and play - I'll be playing my guitar more, seeing my girlfriend more. Life is getting better :)

So how'd you get on?

======= Date Modified 09 Oct 2009 10:34:09 =======
I was also about one third of the way into my PhD when I quit. Frankly, I didn't want to do it anymore, it made me feel a bit depressed, and in general my gut feeling told me that I could be doing something better with myself. I'd say you have to just go straight to your supervisor, maybe see a counsellor beforehand. Make sure it's what you want to do, you'll know deep down. If you stick at it, can you see yourself staying in academia when you finish? If not I don't honestly see much point. I'm now coming to the end of an MSc, have had two job offers, one offering international travel and lots of other perks. LOTS of people quit PhDs but make sure it's the right option for you. If you come onto a forum like this you'll get 90% people telling you this phase will pass, and 10% saying that you should consider exiting your PhD. I'm one of those 10% - I went through something similar and I am so thankful to those others who personally e-mailed me telling me of how they also went through the same and had the courage to exit. Because that's what it takes - extreme balls and courage. I'm not playing devil's advocate here. I know how important hearing the downers was to me, as well as hearing the 'stick to it' comments!

I'll be interested to hear how you get on. Most people don't go through with exiting, and I hope that's the right decision for them. However I suspect it's not the right decision to stay for some, from what I've witnessed. You simply have to build up the courage and go speak to those involved. Draw up a list of pros and cons, ask if this will benefit you in future, listen to your gut, look at the effects is is having on you, talk to friends and family, see a counsellor (talking it through can help clarify things), and go in with a part-decision in mind when you speak to your supervisor. Can you see yourself doing this for another 2/3 years? What if you see yourself completing it in future, would you be happy at having spent that time on the PhD?

I deferred from a doctorate to an MSc and just got accepted onto a graduate program - as well as having a competing offer for more money!! I'm in engineering, though... I was lucky to say that I did an MSc with my time, it will be tricky to say what you did with yours if you want to cover it up.? Other than that just sell yourself - you are your most valuable asset!

Would you believe.... I submitted my contract for a new job today. And at lunchtime got a potential offer for a job paying more, and being located only 10 mins drive from home!! :o I think I will honour the existing job - sounds pretty exciting, also. But that's both a bummer and a bonus, huh!!
In other news, I've got 24 pages of scrawl in regard to my MSc write-up. Going to try and get it done within the month!

Err, did you read any of this thread?? (Also, I was nowhere near the end).
I could just as easily give a long list giving reasons why a PhD could be a bad thing for you!

======= Date Modified 02 Oct 2009 13:25:57 =======
So you're saying that if you had an engineering degree, for example, you might have taken the plunge and gotten a job instead? Think carefully on this one...
Yes, the student support was recommended to me - a free service for your benefit, so why not give it a go? Be honest, it's confidential.

EDIT - I don't know any biologists but I always thought it was a 'useful' degree, no? Is it mainly research you go into with something like that then?

======= Date Modified 02 Oct 2009 12:18:52 =======
List of pros and cons is what I did. I have that list to this day lol!
Well, if you stay then best of luck - I hope not to see you back even more stressed than before! Not meant in a negative way, but I didn't expect you to quit. Although drop-out rates are quite high, I've seen many a person on here reveal all then carry on - only to come back at a later date with the same problems! Perhaps you're right and it's just a temporary bad reaction - as long as you're being true to yourself. There's only one other person from here I know who dropped out and was an immense help to me, but unfortunately has now disappeared!
What is your degree in? If it's engineering then I know LOADS of jobs are going at the moment...
Good luck and hope you're happy with your choice!

======= Date Modified 02 Oct 2009 11:18:06 =======
Read my thread 'Seriously Thinking About Quitting' - it was an epic battle of worry and anxiety on my part. It wasn't working out with my supervisor - he let me go on for a while and then told me he didn't think I had the motivation. He was right, but could have said something sooner. I was tempted to stay for the money - but now I see I could NEVER have done that. Several years is a LOOONG time. In the end I was freaking out big-time, it felt like the end of the world, I was pretty depressed (especially given the economic situation!!). But then I told those involved, deferred to the MSc, and now I have a new job to go to! I don't think I'd ever enrol on a doctorate again but if you do quit (not saying you should, that's up to you!) then I do believe you'd still have a chance of starting another PhD if you wanted. All they really want is cheap labour and research papers!

For me, leaving was just the right thing to do. I knew in my heart of hearts that it wasn't working out - I was unhappy and all those who knew me knew about it. Just do whatever is RIGHT, don't think about the money or what other people think. Have some courage, go over what YOU want, how YOU feel - you only get one life, so make the right choice for yourself.

EDIT - it is never the end of the world. If somebody reacts badly then that's their problem, but I think you'll be surprised at how accommodating people can be.

Thanks, Sneaks! Much appreciated :)
Have got a start date for the new job - will be awkward for the old boss as they really need me to keep working on this thing, but then they could have hired me!
I'll feel good starting afresh. Yesterday I wrote a rough 20 pages for my report - going to try and get it done in a month so that I can move on with everything else put behind me :)
So glad I'm going to be getting the MSc out of it!