Hi satc2013,
I don't think it is very important if your funding is a university scholarship or research council funding. What is most important is that you secured funding as any type of funding is hard to come by. So many congratulations!! Don't feel bad, as you are actually very lucky!

I must admit, I've not come across that many people with research council funding but it's certainly not a rarity. It seems to be just as many or even more PhDs are funded by other sources (e.g., your college/university/department, overseas governments, national charties etc.). I've also met a fair few people who pay to do PhDs (maybe with loans, family donations, inheritance etc.). There doesn't really seem to be any snobbery about who pays for your PhD, as far as I've experienced. What's more important is the work you do with your PhD! That is what gets you noticed.

Personally, I would recommend that you only do the PhD if you have been offered financial support. And you have! Otherwise, it's a huge financial gamble. Ultimately, it's a lot of hard work (and fun!) and the career prospects for many recent PhD graduates are often quite precarious - regardless of what scholarship scheme you were on.

Hi Satchi.
Here is one piece of advice from me which may be of use to you and everyone else having difficulties landing a job.

I have found that accepting your situation and appreciating the generosity of your support network can help you feel much better. Looking for a job is a horrbily painful process and for some of us rejection is an all too common feature. Personally, I have never met anyone like me who has got nowhere with their job search in such a long time (my friends took at most eight months to get jobs). I feel much better by truly accepting that, unlike my friends, my job search is a long-term affair. You have to explain to those around you, such as your loved ones, that you are not simply being lazy or taking advantage of people who help you with money, clothes, food etc. They are willing to help you because they see you are really serious about your career and are actively gaining professional experience, such as writing a paper, doing RA work for free, going to conferences etc. So really focus on gaining some experience! Be patient, it might not happen over night as it takes some time to form relationships with colleagues who you can collaborate with.

Note, though, when accepting you are involved in a long-term job search, you also need to realise there is a possibility you won't get an academic job. I don't want to sound really negative and put you off trying, it's just that nothing in life is ever guaranteed. So when getting your work experience, don't be put off by taking up stuff outside of your area. Gaining expertise elsewhere will really help finding work outside of academia and could lead to a job (and one which is probably better paid!). So keep active!

Good luck!

Hi Satchi,
Sorry to hear you're having a tough time finding work. It seems like lots of us on here are in the same boat and this is a very common problem. I wish I knew people like this in real life!

I would recommend talking to other people you know (e.g. former students) who have gone on to get jobs. It's really helped me doing that as you can get some useful nuggets of advice. It has also made me feel confident that I am doing everything right.

When you are ealy in your career it is very difficult to get taken seriously (even when you have some stellar publications under your belt). From my experience of interviews, the other candidates really exceeded the requirements of the advertised jobs, so we shouldn't ever feel overqualified. It must just be a very competitive market place.

When you don't have a "real" job, it's super hard to gain the credibility and experience to help you get a job that you would get from working (catch-22 situation)! By staying close to former colleagues and helping out with their work, you are showing your commitment to the profession and also slowly gaining some experience and credibility. Also, if your colleagues have any short-term paid work, you may be the first person to be offered it.

Importantly, try not to get too upset about the lack of success on the job market. You are obviously entitled to feel disheartened, but getting properly depressed never helps anything. Volunteering for your colleagues and submitting publications gives you something to feel good about and a sense of achievement.

Keep going, but keep in mind alternative careers and volunteer to get non-academic work experience as well.

Pjlu, given my situation, I’ve regularly sought help from supervisors, careers advisers and friends who have academic jobs and I have got mostly positive comments of my applications. In fact, one of my friends in academia just got a new lectureship and he borrowed a lot of the stuff from my covering letters and CVs I sent him. I’ve also helped another friend (outside academia) get a job by writing his covering letter and CV – maybe I should start charging for this service!

My friends in academia encourage me by saying “give it time”, “you’re being impatient” etc. But a year and eight months looking for a job is really quite a long time! Also, I point out that they all got jobs BEFORE finishing their PhDs, so they don’t really understand the frustration of not having a proper job AFTER the PhD. As for a plan B, I’ve been pursuing that for over a year and a half too. I do have some work experience outside academia, so have been trying to re-kindle this career option. Despite many more applications to these type of entry-level jobs than to academic jobs, I have had ZERO interviews and only one phone interview.

Bewildered, I am also looking at other EU countries for jobs. It seems there are (bizarrely) very few jobs compared to in the UK. They do seem very enthusiastic when I have made enquiries about jobs, though I’ve never been shortlisted!

Smoobles, it is very well known that there are many more PhDs than jobs. But 100s of new jobs are coming up and I know so many people who have got them!

And Eska, it does help if you know someone. I got an interview once because (I’m pretty sure) I knew the head of department. Didn't get the job though.

I guess the best thing to do is not get too upset and I hope my story is a warning to others not to do a PhD if they are dead set on finding employment!

Hi everyone,
Sorry to whinge again. Returning to the topic of getting academic jobs, I am now an even stronger believer that the most important things are WHERE and WHO you did your PhD with. What does anyone else think? Surely this makes you credible as a researcher in the eyes of recruiters.

It may seem obvious, but not to me when I was originally looking to do a PhD. I wanted to stay at the top university where I did my undergrad and masters, but there were no scholarships. My hopes of a PhD became real when I was approached (yes approached!) by a reasonable-ish-ranking university who offered lots of encouragement and money, so I accepted it.

As I've said in previous posts, I do not personally know of a single person who finished their PhD (and wanted to stay in academia) who failed to get an academic job of any description. My sustained lack of success seems unique among most of my friends who have academic jobs - it is the butt of many jokes! They simply don't get how I could have applied to so many jobs that I'm qualified for and not get a single one. My problems are the reason I turned to this website, as on here - for the first time - I have found others in similar situations. This forum is opening my eyes to the "real" world - I am not alone. And I now think my friends must be from a different planet!

Obviously, I constantly compare myself to my friends and ask them how they achieved their success. They reply with sensible suggestions and tell me their stories. Often it seems like I have done way more than they did when they finished their PhDs (e.g. publications, conferences). Maybe my friends don't come from a different planet, but they did all do PhDs in top departments at my old university or at other prestigious universities. This could partially explain their success and my lack of it. Any thoughts?

Thanks for all the replies. There are so many ways to determine journal quality, the metric I suggested is just one. I guess a good way is to see where all the work is that you cite. And MeaninginLife, I am second author on two of the papers (even though I did much of the work!), and first on the rest though I have co-authors.

I understand there are lots of factors that determine success in getting an academic job, not just publications. I think nowadays you have to have basically worked at the same level as a lecturer/research associate with all the associated duties BEFORE you complete your PhD, as bewildered and BilboBaggins suggest. Again, this will depend on whether any teaching/research/admin opportunities were available in your PhD department.

I've been applying for mainly research jobs (where teaching isn't really relevant) because I have little teaching experience to speak of. During the three years of my PhD, I only managed to get less than 10 hours teaching despite my constant nagging to teach! There were just no hours available, so I did ask around at other institutions (some quite far way) but that didn't get come up with anything, probably because I had no prior teaching experience and the other universities understandably save any spare teaching for their own postgrad students. I did manage to collaborate on research with people from elsewhere, though, which really motivated me to publish to keep up with them.

Has anyone been asked about "impact", as bewildered mentions? It's never been mentioned in that way in any of the jobs I've applied to. I do a science subject, so forgive me if I'm wrong, I thought "impact" was mainly relevant to arts subjects to show engagement with the general public, right?

Sorry, this post is perhaps just another frustrated job seeker moaning. Nonetheless, I would like to hear what others have to say about whether publishing is or isn't everything.

Here's my story. I've recently completed my PhD and I have three publications in A* ranked journals, a fourth that has been accepted to another A* ranked journal and waiting to hear on a fifth one from the same journal. (By the way, A* ranked refers to a former Australian system that assigned journals these labels as indicators of quality).

I've been applying for jobs for over a year and a half now with zero success. My lack of success may be partly due to where and with whom I did my PhD. Admittedly, I'm not from a top department and I was the only person in my department to get anything published in A* ranked journals for the current REF period.

I get the feeling that when applying for jobs I may not look as credible as candidates from top departments, especially given that fact that during several job interviews senior academics have explicitly expressed their surprise that I am able to do so much considering where I did my research. I have had success in getting my work out in the best possible places to demonstrate my credibility (and also because I enjoy it!) and it's being cited, but it's obviously not working out.

So maybe publishing is NOT everything. It's much more than that, to do with your academic standing which can't be improved with publishing alone.

Hi phdapplicant. It's normal to have reservations about accepting the scholarship. You can always accept it now and turn it down later if you get one for another university. I don't think it's like signing a legal contract. Normally all the official sides of things will be worked out later (i.e. just before you start your PhD), so you probably have enough time to look for another scholarship at a more suitable university.

My experience of applying to do a PhD sounds like yours - I received a scholarship but the university wasn't as good as my previous one. I never bothered applying to other universities. In many ways I regret it now but was naive to the signficance of this at the time. To cut a long story short, the new university lacked many things I was used to and indeed required for my research (proper expert support, the right equipment etc), so I had to compromise all the time on my research.

My advice: think carefully where and who you are going to do your PhD with BEFORE you consider the money side of things. In one of the best departments in your subject, you are more likely to come across great opportunities during the PhD to put on your CV and help your future career.

Hi eimeo. Sorry to hear you're having a hard time. A lot of what you are experiencing is the same for me and probably many others. As others have said, this isn't ever explicitly mentioned to you before applying for a PhD or even during careers talks aimed at PhD students!

I always kind of guessed falling out of academia was possible, but (aside from myself) I don't know of any cases personally. When I think of all the people I know who started their PhDs before or at the same time as me, they are all now doing really well in their academic jobs. Okay, some may be on two or three year contracts, but they are earning salaries well above the average and gaining lots of academic work experience. A minority of former PhD students I know hated doing PhDs and never wanted academic careers so chose to work in industry long before completing their PhDs. I have just never personally come across anyone who wanted an academic career but couldn't succeed at it. That's why I have turned to this website!

Like you say eimeo, it's heartbreaking, but if you cannot make it in your chosen career then maybe you simply have to move on. I sometimes think of it like wanting to be a pop star or an actor - only the lucky few actually succeed. I just happen to personally know so many of the lucky few! I'm trying to accept this.

There's not that much point in hiding your PhD, though. What's more important is trying to get work experience after the PhD. An arts PhD in combination with work experience could make you look good in jobs to do with culture or education,for example. You can always say you never intended to stay in academia (even if that's a slight exaggeration of the truth) because the few people I know who genuinely wanted out of academia before completing their PhDs seem to have actually done alright.

Hi Boo,
I think it's fine to be away from uni, especially in your last year when you are supposed to be writing up and don't need to be physically in the lab etc. I did that in my last year - I moved back to the town where I did my undergrad and masters to be with my best mates and partner. There wan't really much point hanging around at the place I was doing my PhD as I could do almost all my work from home and only needed to go into uni once or twice every two weeks. My sholarship terms said I needed to live in the vicinity of the university ... nobody ever picked me up on this though.

As for the teaching, I was forced to go to a completely different university during my PhD. For some reason, my department had zero teaching opportunities for PhD students. As I had been begging my supervisors for two years to get some teaching experience, they finally asked around colleagues at other universities and I ended up doing quite a bit elsewhere.

I think you will definitely have more luck finding teaching at a "new" university, like Cardiff Metropolitan, University of West of England, Bath Spa etc. as they tend to have fewer postgrads and more of a surplus of casual part-time hours going than the more "established" universties. It would be better to contact them directly and send them your CV as any bits and bobs they might have going won't be advertised as it won't be enough for a "full" job because of the few hours invovled and casual nature.

Thanks for your replies. Guess it's not that strange then! Just as long I make it clear to the selection panel that I am aware I am applying to a research assistant job and am very willing to do it! I was also a research assistant in the last couple of months of my PhD for something completely unrelated to my PhD and something a monkey could do! This job I've seen looks a lot better and think it will provide useful research experience, so think I'll go for it!

Hi everyone.
Typically, research assistants are graduates who may well go on to do a PhD. I have undergraduate, masters and PhD degrees. I've seen a job as a research assistant in my field and am thinking of applying to it. Does anyone think it's weird for someone like me to apply for a research assistant job aimed at people without PhDs?

Having been a PhD student I obviously have quite a bit of research experience. Quite unusually, though, I lack experience with some of the most commonly used research methods in my field. Even though I have a PhD, I don't meet the requirements for many research associate/post doc positions in my field because of my blatant lack of experience with such methods. I've been on training courses for these methods at other universities, but never got to actually implement them in my research because the equipment and expertise simply weren't available at my university.

So maybe a research assistant job is the way to go to get experience with the important skills I didn't get to use as a PhD student? Then maybe eventually I could move on to a post doc? What does anyone else think?

Hi,
As a student from Ireland you are entitled to whatever funding is available for EU students in other EU countries. Obviously, this varies from country to country, so you really need to do your homework.

As for EU students coming to the UK to do masters degrees, you are treated just like UK students. You have to pay astronomical tuition fees and there is absolutely NO direct government financial assistance for postgraduate students (and your personal financial situation is 100% irrelevant, unfortunately). You may be better off trying a university in Ireland or another EU country.

That said, a *tiny bit* of funding does exist in the UK for EU students wanting to do masters which covers tuition fees and possibly also living expenses. As funding is so scarce it is super competitive. It ultimately depends on what masters funding the university and/or specific department has access to. Some departments may have scholarships to pay tuition fees only and some may have scholarships to pay both tuition fees and living expenses. If a department is lucky to have access to any scholarships, they will most likely to state this clearly in their prospectuses and on their websites. Usually, the department itself chooses who they offer scholarships to (even if the funding for the scholarships comes from external sources such as charities or research councils), so I advise that you make contact with departments as soon as possible to see if you at least stand a chance of being short-listed for any scholarships they might have access to.

Hope this helps a bit!

Hi. Thanks for your replies. I agree that it was worth in the sense you get an opportunity to really work on something you enjoy. Not many people get a chance to immerse themselves in an academic subject of their choice for 3 years, travel around and get their work published! And it isn't exactly easy, but that's part of the enjoyment.

In terms of job prospects, a PhD isn't directly relevant to anything other than a research/teaching job and you really have to be the best of the best to get one as there are so few available jobs. I must be living in some sort of a bubble because the people I know have all done very well immediately after finishing their PhDs (unlike my own experiences and a couple of others on here, which is what drew me here in the first place). I've generally met two types of PhD students: (1) those who knew very long before finishing their PhDs that they wanted careers outside of academia and (2) those who always wanted careers in academia. People from the latter group who I have spoken to about jobs (I often bring it up as really need their advice) told me they only applied to  2 or 3 academic jobs and sometimes got a rejection here or there but ultimately ended up with at least one really good job offer usually BEFORE they had even submitted! When I share my experiences of rejections (though I don't usually mention the number of applications, which is 8 or 9 times higher), they seem utterly gobsmacked and really can't believe it.

So maybe academia simply isn't for me. I suppose I can look as the last 3 years as a very long "gap year" that some people have after their undergrads. I did something fairly useful and fun, but it was not a means to an end, probably more of a means to another means! It's hard not to sometimes think it was a little bit of a bad choice. I am obviously much older than other people competing for jobs in industry and have little relevant work experience. I'm not bothered by that too much - I accept I will have to start on very low pay and work my way up like anybody else - but I get anxious that employers will and prefer a fresh faced graduate or school leaver rather than a mature graduate.

======= Date Modified 07 Nov 2012 00:24:25 =======
Hi all,
This is my first post here. I've been reading others' posts for a long time now and it's nice to know that many of the issues I've faced as a PhD student are normal. Glad to say I've submitted my PhD thesis and will have my viva soon (finished pretty much within the 3 years!). Right now, I'm (obviously) worried about my upcoming viva and what is to come afterwards in terms of career. Seems like securing a job is going to take a while.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Please let me know what you think and share your experiences of coming to the end of your PhDs!