Hi folks, just a quick question - do you list non-academic jobs on your academic CV? I had a managerial shop job prior to the PhD and at the moment I am working in an admin job to pay the bills while trying to get an academic job. I have never mentioned these jobs before on academic applications. I typically mention my teaching and lecturing experience instead but I am now very tempted to mention the non-academic to help emphasise the point that I am a hard worker. Have any of you got any views or experience on the issue that you could share? Yay or nay?

Oh, Ian, don't even get me started on my actual viva. There was nothing normal about any of it from the extern asking me personal questions (can't say too much as don't want to identify myself) to the internal contacting me two weeks prior to viva saying everything was great and then proceeding to heap on more corrections than the extern in the viva (at least your intern was on your side, thxht!) It was an absolute farce so I too am very disillusioned with the examination system. However, even though we all knew I had very good grounds for complaint (I recorded a conversation with the internal afterwards where they gave some very revealing info which I could make a serious complaint about) we still decided it was best to just do the corrections and get that piece of paper that says I have a PhD because otherwise who knows how long it would have dragged on for. Makes a mockery of the whole thing but, listen, thxht, all that matters is getting that piece of paper and then doing your thing later. If your viva was like mine rest assured that this is not a reflection on your work but just the judgement of a goon gone dizzy on power. Better times ahead for you :-) All the best.

I was actually given major revisions in order to rewrite it as a book! They wanted a book there and then and no amount of explaining that this is a thesis not a book could get through to them. As I rewrote their poxy changes in 5 weeks it's a very crap book ;-) As someone else pointed out though OP it really doesn't matter because now the university owns a very crap thesis from me and I get to use my original thesis for my publications without worrying about self-plagiarism. It's actually worked out for the best in that sense. I've managed to get publications in high ranking journals very quickly using the version the examiners made me rewrite. I understand how you feel about this because I've been there and done it too but you just have to play along for now and then do your own thing afterwards. It was heartbreaking being made to dumb it down and rip it apart but I had to do it because it's a court with no appeals. Just do it and then do your publications as you please (and, yup, you might be asked to revise for publications too but it's your decision then whether the reviewers have a point or take it elsewhere). Publications are entirely different IMO and much more fun.

Excommunicate, I got given 'major corrections that are minor' whatever the heck that was supposed to mean. I was given 6 months to do them and did them at breakneck pace within five weeks. The revised thesis is absolutely rubbish and not a patch on the original version so I think the examiners realised their error then but I revised it the way they advised and did an extensive 30 page correction sheet explaining how I implemented their changes so they had to accept. I cried regularly, felt like I was having palpitations (I could feel my heart racing and I would start shaking - never in my life felt anything like that) but just wanted it done and out of my way so I could get back to doing it my way in my publications and that's what I've done. The extern has been nice to me since. I think they realised they made a grave error and they're trying to make up for it. So things can turn around eventually but unfortunately you just have to get stuck in and make the changes as they've advised even if it ruins your work and just look forward to the future and doing it your way through your publications ok :-) It can be done but from my experience the only way was to sit down and do it. No magic wands. Nothing can do it but you sitting at your computer and doing it. I ate plenty of chocolate and drank plenty of tea because I was so upset. I did drink a bit the odd night. I then went back to my normal healthy regime when it was done. It's a rotten experience though and one I'll never forgive or forget. I wish you strength. You really can do it. Just focus on how great you'll feel doing it your way later in publications. Play along for now though.

Ha! Mine was upset I didn't wear the hat. See I'd been reading a lot of Judith Butler and was serious about feminism so no way was I 'capping' my education. Men were not offered the hats at my uni but I had heard that historically it was the case that women wore them to 'cap' their education meaning they weren't allowed go any further with it. I ended up wearing one at my MA grad then for my mother. My mother just always had a big thing about getting me and my brother educated because she didn't get that opportunity so that's why I'm happy to go along with it for her. But Marasp you do what you want to do. A PhD is a great achievement. It's a total once-off thing so I guess that's one thing to keep in mind. Would you regret not going in years to come?

Ah, it's refreshing to see y'all share the same views regarding expense and overpaid presidents! However, I am likely going to attend because my mother seemed really upset just last night coincidentally when I said I don't think I'll go. I better bring my iPod with me though and listen to that while the president is talking. That knob would like to see us lecture for peanuts while he takes the cream.

Hey Marasp, I know people who didn't attend due to the expense of renting the gown etc. I dunno what it's like where you are but where I am it's very expensive to rent the gown for the day. I was thinking of not going but my mother got upset so I think I'll end up going just to please ;-) I don't want to go really because I don't really want to listen to the bullshit the overpaid president of the uni will be spouting.

Glad I can be of some help, Anz, and I really wish you the best with this. I know it's not easy. I guess I was ‘lucky’ that my examiners got their lists to me within a day. Their actual proper lists of corrections were more detailed and made it a little clearer but I still had to ask both internal and external for clarification as it was all still quite vague.
I think it's fine to ask them for clarification (unless your uni has rules that you can't talk to examiners - in that case see can your sup forward the query on your behalf), Anz, but can you put forward any suggestions as to how you might deal with what they are asking you to do rather than just asking them. I emailed my extern and said "you asked me to do x. My approach to this would be to do x, y and z/or "I think in response to your request on X, I would begin by looking at Y and then discussing Z." Is this what you’re asking me to do?/Would this be sufficient?/Is this what you're looking for?"
You have to box clever and let them think you’re interested in what they have to say and then just do it. It’s the only way. I did also set a deadline and said to my supervisor that I was handing it in by that date and that was it. We were very worried as the final thing I handed in was way below the standard of the original but the examiners accepted it as I did what they said. When you're sending the final version to them also submit a document listing and explaining all your changes and how you responded to their requests and say things like ‘In section X I respond to Examiner 1’s request by doing x, y and z. This really helped to make x so much clearer’ (even if it didn’t make x clear at all. Just play along!).

Anz07, I do feel for you. Been there. Got two examiners who made me insert stuff that really wasn't relevant. I was given 6 months corrections but did them in 5 weeks and awarded PhD within 6 weeks. Just do what they say even if it's silly. I have now published part of my own proper version in a high impact peer-reviewed journal which was sweet revenge :-) Try think of this as a technical task that you've just got to get through and then you can move on and go back to your own brilliant style, ok? That's how you salvage some good from an admittedly shitty situation. Try take this as something to spur you on than a deterrent. Do what they want (some people go mad when they get a little bit of power so let the examiners have their day) and then do your thing. Wishing you the best.
Edit: Anz, I just want to clarify as I seem to remember I responded to you before saying I kicked and screamed a bit about the result. Now I did do this in the sense that I let the examiners, my supervisors and the head of dept know I was very displeased with the result and why. My supervisor also did. The examiners backed down a little then and seemed to regret what they did. Having said this, I did do everything they asked me to do.

Hi excommunicate. At my institution anything over 6 weeks but less than 6 months is classified as 'major' and I was also told my corrections were 'minor' but more than 6 weeks so I was given the 'major category' classification on my report. Sounds like your situation is similar. It took me about 5 weeks of flat out work to get the 'minor' corrections done. By the sounds of it yours might be similar? Aim for 3 months. In the grand scheme of things it isn't too long. You'll get there and congrats because you have passed.

Gwen86, it is a pass. I got this too and got it all done and dusted and approved within 2 months. I had been given 6 months. I got the reports within a day and worked flat out. However, I do feel like the examiners stole my moment from me. Stole my day in the sun and it felt like a consolation prize getting it two months later so i understand about not wanting to celebrate too soon. It doesn't feel like it's over when you get majors because it isn't really. It's really over when you get that piece of paper that says you have it after corrections have been approved. I was also sick worrying that the examiners wouldn't approve the corrections and it'd suddenly become an R&R and another viva but I just followed their very vague comments as closely as I could and thankfully it was approved. I was told by my supervisor that it's very unlikely that once you pass with majors that you'll be given more corrections. Wishing you the best with this.

anz07, I got mine within a day but there's people on here who had to wait months I think. It's a tough one to know whether to chase it or stop. The main thing is you have passed. I'm guessing the Christmas break probably interrupted things in your case but still in my humble opinion they should have had it to you by now. Maybe someone else can better advise. Just wish you strength and support - I went through major corrections too. It sucks but you will get there.

Anz07, my heart goes out to you. I could have written your post a while back. If you leaf through older threads you'll see that I got given 6 months major corrections a few months ago. I have now been given my PhD. Here's my tip: I kicked and screamed as did my supervisor. I, like you, had nothing but positive feedback from every quarter right throughout and I know the thesis did not deserve the outcome it got. I have no doubt if I didn't get angry and upset I would've been sitting working on corrections for much longer.
CharlieB, I also felt like vomiting every single day over the last while working on it. My heart goes out to you. Try take solace from our very own Marasp who got her award recently after a long fight. You will both get there but, yeah, I'm sorry to say it but kicking and screaming... I know you might be concerned that this strategy might be tantamount to shooting yourself in the foot but I don't know. This has made me think a lot about how these things work. I can only share my experience.
You both deserve better. I wish you both the very best with this.

Many congrats Dr Marasp :-) Very happy for you. Enjoy this feeling. You deserve it. I hope I get there soon too! You're an inspiration.

Ganesha, my heart goes out to you. The frustration (which is justified in my opinion) is palpable from your post. I think though you have to approach your supervisor with a level head. Don’t go in to start world war 3! I think Glowworm gave very good advice on how to approach your supervisor. I have done something similar. As you know, I got major corrections at the end of October which we’re actually hoping will be done by Christmas but I really had to push for that. I made it very clear in a very polite manner that I had to have this done by Christmas for financial and personal reasons. So why not take that approach with your supervisor? Find out when his office hours are and go in, knock on his door, and explain that you have to have this resubmitted by whatever date (so give them a deadline) and then I think their attitude should improve because as someone else pointed out supervisors, departments and universities do not want PhD projects to fail. It looks bad for them so I think putting the polite but firm deadline there (I have to be finished by X date) will make him sit up and take notice a bit more.

I think the international vs local student debate is a bit of a side issue maybe so try not get wound up about that. It’s likely draining your energy and not helping you concentrate. I am not in the UK but I do have sympathy for what you say because I do think international students are often used just for their money.

You have my empathy, Ganesha. I know how horrible it is having your project thrown back in your face. You will get there though. Set a deadline not just for you but for your supervisor and make clear it has to be done by that date and there can be no excuses. Say that you need to have it done for financial and personal reasons. All the very best.