======= Date Modified 27 Mar 2012 08:30:52 =======
Hmm, what have I missed? :-)

To clarify, I meant rather than tell a lie that may trip you up later, if you don't want people to know about something it's better just not to mention it.

I'll add that remaining silent to support a malicious dishonesty, however, is as bad as lying.


Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

You mean like being four and a half years into a job and still keeping quiet about holding a PhD? :-)

In principle, you're right and if there's something you don't want people to know don't mention it rather than try to twist the truth.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

If the part-time jobs bolster your total apparent employment experience, include them.

However, it's professional qualifications and experience that are most likely to get you noticed in the the UK.

Have you considered applying for jobs at a lower level (risking the overqualified tab - although a different field to yours, I've been slapped with the overqualified tab) then working up within an organisation to build up relevant experience?


Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

You can if you wish, however, the Dr. title only becomes official on the conferral date. Would I be right in saying the conferral dates relate to graduation cereonies by your University?

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

======= Date Modified 21 Mar 2012 13:20:45 =======

The purpose of the above was to play devil's advocate with you. In doing so, I hope I've help you answer your own questions. :-)

I did have my doubts, hence my reasosn for doing what I did.


Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Can I ask a blunt question (and I'm not meaning to be rude)?

Do you care whether or not you complete the thesis and gain the PhD?


I'm going to take a different tack. Your new life is clearly alot more important to you than finishing the PhD. You've clearly a good few months to go before you're ready to submit and it may drag onto corrections after that depending on the examination outcome. If major, you may be talking another year.

If your extra responsibilities in your new job are what matter to you the PhD doesn't figure as such in this, why don't you obtain a suspension of studies from your former University (cite personal or family reasons). You can give it a few months and if you feel you still don't care and don't even look at the thesis, then call it a day.

It would probably be nice to finish the PhD but if it's getting in the way of your new life that you consider more important to you, then in the medium term it may even be holding you back. It's clear from what you say it's not going to really benefit your new non-academic career.

You sound like the kind of person that the real world suits you more. As such, why continue to put yourself through any more and an oral exam with outcome that may no longer be relevant to you?


Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

OLD THREAD FOLKS (or am I missing the point?)!!! 26th January 2005 if you look top right of opening post.

Interview is always formal businesswear.

My own viewpoint is actually somewhere inbetween Delta's and 123Giblet's. In my case, there had to be a large dollop of bl**dy mindedness to see the process through because especially towards the end it was brutal. However, as I've said in the past I knew I was always going to get there and see it through because I wanted to so badly. I needed the challenge to really test myself to the limit.

When I gave up my job to take up the PhD, whatever doubts were expressed beforehand either within myself or by those closest to me were set aside. I was going to do it and even during the horrors of write-up, there was never any doubt that I would succeed (things were falling into place even though it was hard work getting there). The core experimental programme's structure lent itself to the final structure of the thesis, which in retrospect allowed the project and final write-up to be managed in bite-sized chunks.

That said, I'm not naturally gifted or any genius. It was not something I was going to be able to do easily. This is where I diverge from Delta that it's only during the process I became capable of doing a PhD. Bluntly put, you either adapt and evolve or you fall by the wayside. I was not going to let myself fall by the wayside, which is why I knew I would see it through.


Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

======= Date Modified 20 Mar 2012 08:47:24 =======

Andy,

You actually sound fired up for this and you want the opportunity to work with leaders in the field. You do sound as if you're going into this for the right reasons.

If you see this as a now or never opportunity, then perhaps you shouldn't let the chance past. I am looking at what you're saying and it's a mirror image of my thought processes whilst I was deciding.

If I hadn't done it when I did, I know I'd have rued that decision for ever more. I think you've already made your decision and it's just a matter of you actually admitting it. The hours you're working suggest you've got the work ethic in you to see it through (you'll actually probably work slightly less hours at least up until write-up stage).

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

I fully agree with Lindalou83. Don't risk major corrections by rushing the revisions and possibly having nothing to show for all the work. If you do get major corrections, it may be more than you can cope with as your new life takes off.

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

This is the bit where I roll out my blog on PhDs again.  Have a read through and see how you feel.

http://www.wearthesis.talktalk.net

I understand that giving up a secure position can be wrench and I gave up an okay job to do my PhD.  I will add that long term, the place I was working for was in danger and it did eventually close down some 18 months later.  In your case, you're not in any danger and that will make the decision harder.  If you're in a technical subject, I wouldn't worry so much about not finding a job at the end as you can sell the skills you've acquired should you find yourself outside of academia.

The bit I would be concerned about is the catch-up work, however, you've been offered the place so your supervisor perhaps thinks it's manageable for you.  The PhD is about you at the end of the day and how you deal with the challenges it throws up.  You might want to talk to your potential supervisor about this issue before accepting to allay your fears.

However, it does sound as though you're in it for the right reasons, because you want to do it and you like the subject and I'd be tempted to suggest go for it.  But you also say you've spent the last ten years working hard and putting yourself through exams and you want to enjoy life for a while.  In that case, how badly do you want to do the particular project on offer?

If enjoying life for a while is important to you, then let go for a few years.  There's plenty people go back to Uni. in their 30s and even later to do a PhD if you feel that is the right choice.  Don't that 30+ is some deadline, after which it will be too late.

The subject of a PhD was raised with me after I did Masters.  However, at that stage, I felt the same as you and wanted time out in the real world.  I was also quite frankly exhausted as I'd endured ill health during the Masters and needed to recharge.  It was a good five years later I returned to successfully do one and I have no regrets about making the decision to do it.  It was a challenge I personally needed to put myself through, but only once I was ready and it just so happened the project was right for me.


Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

The comments made so far here are good'uns. Even better is if you can get someone who's completed the PhD process sucessfully to proof read for you, this based on the assumption "You only know how to do a PhD once you've completed it". Hand over bits in manageable bitesize chunks so as not to swamp whoever you ask. Also, even if you disagree with some of what they say, remember to thank them properly and in all likelihood a good proof read can make or break a thesis.

I got bits of a lad's thesis to proof read shortly after I finally signed off on mine, only to find his English language skills were appauling. I would safely consider his discussion chapter to be in parts a random collection of English words rather than a coherent descrition of his findings. He'd been given three days to sort it out or be failed, this due to him possibly being near his five year upper limit allowed by my PhD University. So it was going to be a tough ask for us to sort it out for him. That said, I roped in my mum to help me and the two of us managed develop it into a coherent passage of text.

We handed the revised docuemnt back to him. Later in the day "You changed the meaning!!!". I responded "There was no meaning!!!"

He submitted and got through with minor corrections. Did I and my mum get any thanks for helping him? Nope!!!

He's now the one with the successful career back in his home country, with an example of his work showcased by my PhD University (you literally cannot miss the equipment as it stands proud above the back of the building). My work and and a good bit of that of my other colleagues and predecessors has be largely forgotten in comparison, after the group I worked in was disbanded after I left.

Not bad for a lad who was so close to being failed. :-(

Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

Cue Prokofiev, Dance of the Knights, Alan Sugar, "You're Fired!!!" 8-)

As threre was a lot of unavoidable overlap between the literature reviews or my thesis and my two predecessors, I have to admit I'm a little curious as to how my thesis would score in a Turnitin test now. :-)


Ian (Mackem_Beefy)

======= Date Modified 16 Mar 2012 15:08:58 =======

You should be to be fair and in theory the thesis is accessible via Ethos and the repositories. 

However, journal publication is and will remain the best way of disseminating information and allowing your work (and your association with it) to become well known and are well accessed and indexed by the search engines now.

In contrast I've had a representative at my former PhD Uni. all but say that the copies held on repository (and this definitely applies to Ethos) are not indexable by the search engines.  I think this applies mainly to the scanned copies of older documents that are held on both Ethos and the repositories that are uploaded on request at a later date (even though the documents can be put through text recognition so the text can be searched).  Newer documents that are converted to PDF directly from the Word or Latex version are.

Your average person will still just do a Google or Bing Search and still not think about the relatively new Ethos or repositories.  Someone with a bit more nouse and knowledge will.  If that person is slightly dishonest they may decide that because the document will not be well accessed to take ideas from it for their own prestige or financial gain without the original owner or author knowing.  If the information is in refereed journal or paper form before the thesis is made public and intellectual ownership is establish by the refereeing and publishing process, would that make it easier to establish intellectual ownership in case this is challenged?

It's a hard one to be honest.  It's more credible to allow access now with Ethos and the repositories compared to in the past when the thesis was at best pushed into the University library and could only be obtained from the British library in paper form if it was found in the catalogue.  I guess it's down to relative public knowledge of such sources, however, I find myself thinking I should have waited until I got at least two papers out of the thesis to firmly establish intellectual ownership before making the thesis public.

Perhaps this discussion has got me thinking and mebbies I'm a little paranoid about it as a result. :-)


Ian (Mackem_Beefy)